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Unethical, Yes! Disgusting, Definitely! But is it a conspiracy? Let’s find out…

August 6, 2012


Dr. Lindsey Duncan has only recently come up on my radar, and yet he has already guaranteed himself a spot in this years Rogues Gallery class of inductees.  It is remarkable that he has achieved this position so quickly without having reached the criminal levels evidenced by others who had achieved this feat in years past, such as Heidi Diaz…  Now she was a piece of work.

I would have put Lindsey Duncan in the Rogues Gallery for his unparalleled work at talking out of his ass about ‘super foods’, detoxification, ‘anti-aging’ foods and constantly reminding people that he is the nutritionist to the stars.   This guy has a superfood for each and every ailment known to man.   It is astounding to me that we even need regular doctors and medicines with the quick fixes this guy finds.  Who needs more reasons?

In any case, I recently posted about Lindsey Duncan’s appearance on Dr. Oz and what a vacant, over acted and completely embarrassing performance Dr. Oz put in shilling this product for Lindsey Duncan.  There were no shortage of questions about what Dr. Oz is up to,as this was at least the 4th, ‘Miracle in a bottle’ that Dr. Oz has hyped recently.  The complete lack of research on his part and that of his staff is amazing.  In the previous misstep he missed almost everything to do with the ‘Raspberry Ketones’ that he was pitching in an earlier miracle episode.  Simple things like the fact that they are almost guaranteed to not be natural raspberry ketones, but instead are most likely made in a lab (source):

Raspberry Ketones (also known as 4-(4-hydroxyphenyl) butan-2-one) are an extract from Red raspberries usually used as a scenting and flavoring agent in foods and cosmetics.[1] It has a structure similar to Capsaicin and Synephrine, sharing a 1,3,7-cyclohexene group with a carbon tail.[2]

It can naturally be found in many foods, most notably raspberries (in which case it is synthesized from coumaroyl-CoA), however most raspberry ketone is synthesized[3] or produced via bacteria[4][5] due to its high demand in cosmetics and as a flavoring agent.

 How well do you think it would sell without the pictures of raspberries and the word ‘natural’ thrown in all the time.  How about if Dr. Oz was telling you to take 4-(4-hydroxyphenyl) butan-2-one for weight loss.  Interested?  And his work on African Mango and how diligently he looked at those studies would have been embarrassing for even a grade 7 student.

But how could he have missed this:

Still, to have missed everything, including the non-existent research that he claimed that he has been reading (there are NO human clinical trials of raspberry ketones, so tell us Dr. Oz, what research did you do???), is sloppy.  I would say though, hosting a segment on Green Coffee Beans, making the superlative statements that Dr. Oz does when only one study of 16 people has been run, and then inviting on, as an expert ‘Doctor’ the one man in America who appears to own more of the green coffee extract than any other (maybe all others combined), and to NOT disclose his vested interest in this product is at best sloppy.  I am not sure what it is at its worst… litigious?
Question # 1 for Dr. Oz, Harpo Productions, ZoCo Productions and OzWorks :Did the people who vetted Lindsey Duncan for the show not know about his ownership of the Genesis Today company?
Is that possible?  I discovered it within my first watching of Lindsey Duncan’s self promotion video.  The theme song is actually the company song for genesis pure – the MLM spin off of Genesis Today and it plays through the WHOLE 8 minutes  (oh and the fact that genesis pure actually uploaded the video in the first place).
If I was running a show and I brought on an expert to talk about a product, I would view them differently if I knew they were selling it.  I would review the literature more thoroughly and question them more deeply.  Or, more likely, I wouldn’t have them on the show, I would actually pick an expert who didn’t have a clear conflict of interest, but let’s say that the person who does the background check on the guests was sick that day/week.
Question #2 for Harpo Productions, ZoCo Productions and OzWorks: Still, would you not have a box on the form you have guest presenters sign that requires the disclosure of any and all conflicts of interest?  Simply asked, do you not have some sort of disclosure form?
Of course they would.  Harpo Productions, ZoCo Productions and OzWorks must have lawyers.  Lots of them.  The situation that they could land themselves in is quite serious and it is quite simple.  At worst, if they were paid in any way to put on an infomercial without proper disclosure they would be in violation of the Communications Act.  Section 317 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, 47 U.S.C. § 317, requires broadcasters to disclose to their listeners or viewers if matter has been aired in exchange for money, services or other valuable consideration.   If they weren’t paid, why in the world did they destroy Dr. Oz’s credibility running an infomercial for Dr. Lindsey Duncan?  How either Dr. Oz got gamed by Lindsey Duncan or how Dr. Oz and Lindsey Duncan are gaming us is impressive.  At no time during the interview did it seem that Lindsey Duncan was selling a product that he was the main supplier of, nor did it seem that he was actually promoting his brand of the product.  Dr. Oz gave him the questions that set up Dr. Lindsey’s directions to buy his product, even though he intended no one to know that he was doing this.

The Facts:

In fact, now we know that Lindsey Duncan sells green coffee extract.  He has recently come clean on that front in his press release where he is sharing locations to buy Green Coffee Extract:
Genesis Today (for full disclosure, I am the Founder & CEO of Genesis Today)
  Of course, on the Dr. Oz show he doesn’t say for you to buy the product from Genesis today (that would have tipped everyone off as to his clear conflict of interest), but instead stresses, over and over and over again, to type PURE into your browser.  He starts with the PURE requirement at 3:49 in the video:
I will get back to the pure part in a second, the other thing to note from the video is how, when asked how much you should take, he says, 800mg twice a day.  Why 1600 mg (800 mg x 2)?  Is that the dose that they were given in the the revolutionary study he refers to in his interview?  No…
In the study, they were given 2 different doses, with the increased weight loss being associated with the larger doses.  The doses were 700 and 1050mg (2 and 3 pills of 350 mg each).
Later, in his own, proprietary explanatory video that is posted on is sales website, Lindsey Duncan recommends repeatedly, taking 2 x 400 mg pills before every meal.
He stresses, “#3, MAKE SURE that it is 400 mg, you want to make sure that each capsule is 400 mg and you want to take 2 before every meal”.  Here he is now recommending that you take 2400 mg, but even more important than the actual dose you take, he REALLY, REALLY wants you to buy 400 mg capsules.  Think about this, he stresses the importance of the size of the pill being exactly 400 mg, even though you take a minimum of 800 mg, and he stresses this even though he changes the overall dose from 1600 mg to 2400 mg, an increase of 50%!!
But why?  Why would he care about the size of the pill?  Is 400 mg the biggest capsule you can get or is his blend the blend used by the study?  No on both accounts.  The blend used in the study is from Applied Food Sciences Inc (Austin, TX) under the trade name GCA® .  According to UltimateFatBurner.com:
If you want to experiment with green coffee extract, we recommend the Source Naturals brand product from iHerb, and not Dr. Lindsey’s own formulation. Why? Source Naturals contains the precise, proprietary extract used in the study (GCA®), contains a larger dose per pill (500mg vs. 400mg) and is cheaper (when purchased at iHerb).
When you look for the 400 mg pill, you actually only have 2 purchasing options that come up time and again.  Lindsey Duncan’s Genesis today brand and this other brand, Pure Health.  In fact, Lindsey Duncan is aware of this other product and heartily recommends it.  In his press release he suggests the following locations to buy this product:

“I was overwhelmed by the response from my appearance last week on national TV, myself and my team have been inundated with calls and emails asking for information on where to find ‘pure green coffee bean extract in a vegetarian capsule’ and how to make sure that you are not purchasing from a scam website. We have done extensive research and confirmed that the following companies are reputable and well-established (they were ‘founded’ more than 6 days ago), and they offer PURE green coffee bean extract with no additives, no binders, no fillers and no artificial ingredients:

He has done his research and Pure Health is number one.  My first thought on this was that he was wisely doing the anti-trust thing.  Suggest another competing product first.  People will still buy from you as likely as not but you don’t look like you are scamming people, only helping them.  After all, think about it, if you pushed this green coffee bean story as being a revolution in weight loss after one study of 16 people, you got many if not most of your facts wrong when you presented on TV and you were ridiculously specific about the dosage of the product, even though there is NO evidence anywhere to suggest that 400 mg capsules are a good dose and in the end it turned out you were the only one selling this product that you were hyping, well that wouldn’t look good at all.  That would look like you manipulating a market, quite possibly working with Dr. Oz to create a multi-million dollar market out of thin air.  Lindsey Duncan opened the whole show saying (taken from Lindsey Duncan post on Dr. Oz.com)

Normally, I don’t recommend “weight-loss” supplements, especially weight-loss supplements that claim “easy” weight loss or “fast” weight loss.

You really don’t suspect that a person who doesn’t even recommend ‘weight-loss’ supplements would actually be the main retailer, and it certainly wouldn’t cross your mind that he was the one making up all the media hype with the help of Dr. Oz (as of yet we do not know if Dr. Oz is an unwitting accomplice or if he shares in the riches of this plan.  If Dr. Oz replies to my requests for clarification I will post them here).

You Probably Won’t Believe this Next Turn of Events

The thing is, remember how he stressed PURE in the Dr. Oz video and in his video.  How he stressed no filler, no cellulose, and a vegetarian capsule.  Well, the pill from this other company that Lindsey Duncan recommends is all of those, and it the brand name even has PURE in it.  So does the website.  That does seem like quite a coincidence.  It is like he was intending the publics searches to go this competing product even before he was on the Dr. Oz Show…  The coincidences don’t stop there.  Recommended dose printed on the bottle is 800 mg (why would they recommend a dose that doesn’t match the research as well?).  They misreport the same information from the study that Lindsey Duncan does on the website.  The most egregious of these is that the individuals at 2400 calories and only burned 400 calories a day.   I hadn’t even noticed the first time Lindsey Duncan said this, but I sure noticed it in the ripping that ultimatefatburner.com gave this Dr. Oz segment:

At this point he said something else. I had to stop and rewind the video segment several times to make sure I heard him correctly; Duncan reports that participants consumed 2400 calories and states “they burned only 400 calories, now that’s weight gain, not weight loss.”

Wow.

Is Duncan seriously suggesting that an average 170-180 lbs individual only needs 400 calories per day to survive? A simple test with a BMR (basal metabolic rate) calculator will show you that the amount of calories required is actually closer to 4 times that number!

Think about that for a second.  A so called Dr., a nutritionist of all people, is claiming these people only burned 400 calories a day… yet they ate 2400… How in the world would that be possible-are these people in a cryogenic sleep state?  Dr. Lindsey even thought about it and realized that they are storing 2000 calories a day, which is what he calls weight gain….  He thought about people burning 400 calories a day as normal… Still, this misstatement is showing up everywhere on sites associated with Lindsey Duncan’s products.  I would have let it go, anyone can misstep with language once on national TV, but he keeps making this claim, even after ultimatefatburner has brought it to his attention.  You can’t say that he may not have seen the blog entry because his team responded to it here.

I love that response by the way.  My favourite part is where they throw Dr. Oz under the bus:

I understand your frustration with some of the products or some of the herbs that are seen on Dr. Oz and their efficacy, but Dr. Lindsey is very careful about what he brings to the public light – and just because there might be holes in the study that you want to attack, Dr. Lindsey shouldn’t necessarily be the brunt of your attack. As they say, don’t kill the messenger :)”

With a smiley face emoticon even! If there are holes in the study and this is the study that Lindsey Duncan is bringing to the public, and calling earth shattering, in fact, it is the only thing on which he bases all of the hype that HE IS CREATING, then by definition you HAVE to kill the messenger because he is the entire problem.  Still, I love how even Lindsey Duncan’s people think that Dr. Oz is a pathetic in the products he is shilling!

Getting back to the issue at hand though.  If Lindsey Duncan is in fact promoting 2 brands of green coffee extract and admitting out of the need for full disclosure that he owns one of the brands, is there anything wrong with him not disclosing that he owns the other brand as well?

SERIOUSLY!!

Again, I would have let this go, but a very astute reader of mine, Katrina noticed something a little more coincidental:

Katrina
August 2, 2012 1:12 pm

Dear Mark,
This was an interesting article. After also watching the segment on Dr. Oz with Dr. Duncan I started searching the Internet and found an article that stated the 2 best coffee bean supplements that he recommends (Genesis Today and Pure Health). It does state that he is CEO of Genesis but I decided to check out the Pure Health website as well. This website doesn’t mention who the owners are but If you dig deep enough the address is the same as Genesis (I think they were both in Austin, TX). Interesting, huh?????

My response:
Katrina,
That is interesting.  I did a bit of digging and yes, they do have the exact same address:

Genesis Today Inc.
14101 West Highway 290
Building 1900
Austin, TX 78737

Pure Health LLC
c/o 3PL Distribution
14101 W. Hwy. 290, #1900
Austin TX 78737

I checked out the location on google maps. It is a small warehouse in Texas, there is no way that there are 2 companies there, or that Pure Health coincidently uses the same fulfillment centre as Genesis today. Great digging.

Still, I have had products for sale before (nothing related to weight loss, in fact it was for poker) and we used a fulfillment centre (sometimes if you make a product you don’t want to be shipping it out of your garage, so you pay a company to store the product in their warehouse and fill the orders as they come in.  This is a fulfillment centre), so this could be a coincidence.  I did get a good look at the business centre and that building isn’t a fulfilment centre.  Even if it were, why would Genesis today list it as it’s legal business address?  A fulfilment centre has nothing to do with your legal business address, in fact it is that fulfillment centres legal address .  As well, Austin Texas is a strange location for a fulfillment centre.

It is the white roofed building in the upper left corner there.

So, I am now pretty sure that Lindsey Duncan used his ‘full disclosure’ to actually trick us into thinking that he was actually fully disclosing his conflicts of interest, when in fact he was hiding that he had business interests in both of the companies that he is promoting.  I don’t know if that would be so bad either if he hadn’t spent so much of each of his videos and press releases admonishing us to avoid fillers, get 400 mg, avoid scams, “use well-established companies (that were ‘founded’ more than 6 days ago)”, which all might have seemed like good, doctoral advice, when in fact it was all part of a scam to get you to buy his product instead of anyone else’s.  Here he is spending minutes and an entire press release, literally stating:

My mission is to make the world a healthier place by educating on natural health and wellness and to make affordable healthy, all-natural products available and accessible for everyone. It is unfortunate that when the natural, medical or scientific community uncovers one of Nature’s most incredible natural secrets that has the potential to make a significant impact and improve the lives of millions of people around the world – that so many scammers and marketeers jump on the bandwagon with only the mission to take advantage of innocent consumers who are searching for hope and seeking to improve their health and happiness.”

Yes, he literally stated that.  I wonder, was that little voice inside his head laughing and saying, and I am one of those scammers and marketeers…

If only I could find some evidence that he has some financial connection to the Pure Health company.  The problem is though, the website does not even list the real company name that sells the products.  Is it Pure Health, is it Pure Health 100, or some other variation.  You would be astounded at how many variation there are in Texas.  Is the company even founded in Texas or were they devious enough to found it somewhere else?  When was it founded even, was this a newly hatched plan or something thought up long before?

I was getting nowhere on the computer and had a list of people I could follow up with by phone over the next week or so.  I had landlord’s numbers, IT professionals who handled the website, etc.  I would get to the bottom of this.  I had done a lot of research into company ownership back when I was doing a report on a scam ring of websites run by Henny Den Uijl and Bryan Corlett, including Lypozene and a dozen others, so I kept looking.  After awhile, I became heartened when I came across this.  Do you see the words in the url?:

On the pure Health website, on an obscure link, when clicked, you get a link that includes Genesis Today.  This was evidence, but easy for them to clean up and certainly not proof.  Still, I knew I had the good Dr.

Some complaints for Pure Health (a lot of complaints: “Since the beginning of May 2012, BBB has received a high volume and pattern of complaints regarding non-delivery of products ordered online. Many of these complaints are currently pending response from the company” source) in the BBB and a website registration led me to Nevada, .  Once I had that, I had the whole picture:

PURE HEALTH LLC.

Active File Date:  2/27/2012
Type:  Domestic Limited-Liability Company Entity Number:  E0109572012-5
Qualifying State:  NV List of Officers Due:  2/28/2013
Managed By:  Managers Expiration Date:
NV Business ID:  NV20121126197 Business License Exp:  2/28/2013

Why I was having no luck finding them was because they were only created at the end of February, 2012.  Coincidently, the press release from Dr. Lindsey Duncan (the one advising you to use well established companies) was dated May 4th and he appeared on Dr. Oz in April.  So, this company was created before the Dr. Oz show aired, but certainly after he knew he was doing it, possibly after it was taped… very tricky, but even he would have to admit that this certainly was not a well established company!

I actually was quite suspicious that his wife was involved in this scam earlier because as I searched through Lindsey Duncan’s associated companies and business associates I found some interesting connections, including a holding company owned by Cheryl Wheeler-Duncan.  At this point I assumed she was his wife, and that holding company made me suspicious (although to tell you the truth, it probably has nothing to do with the whole Pure Health thing, just that holding companies are ALWAYS suspicious).

The Owner of Pure Health 100

The address of the Nevada corporation that I have found matches the owner of the website for Pure Health 100 so we have the same company, of that I am sure, and the directors of the company are none other than Cheryl Wheeler-Duncan and Nancy L Manshum.  I confirmed that Cheryl Wheeler-Duncan is Lindsey Duncans wife here (and a pretty famous stuntwomen).  Nancy L Manshum is one of the directors of Genesis Now:
I can’t say exactly who owns this company, but I can say that we had been hoodwinked!  He set up a company, hidden in Las Vegas and not even at arms length to promote about without disclosing his relationship!  So, clearly Lindsey Duncan did not give full disclosure in his press release.  He keeps releasing press releases by the way, hyping this coffee extract.  His wife’s company cannot keep up with the orders or even respond to phone calls.  This has generated a mass of complaints and scam website reports (here, here and here).  The complaints centre around:
Complainants allege products are purchased via the company’s website, payment is received, sometimes overnight, and products are not delivered by the promised delivery date. Complainants also claim the inability to contact the company to inquire about their purchase.
Apparently one complainant got ahold of the people and they said they were massively understaffed, only having 2 people in the company, but they had hired 10 more to try to deal with the backlog.  Of course the product is listed as in stock on the webpage.  I love how Lindsey Duncan came to his wife/his companies defence in his press release:
“As you are reaching out to these companies, please be patient. They are also being inundated with orders and inquiries, and will serve you as quickly as they possibly can.”
It is almost like he is clairvoyant!  Do you think he and his wife were sitting down to dinner and she said, ‘Honey, we can’t keep up with orders and people are beginning to associate us with the scam sites, can you tell them that they will have to wait for the product from us, but of course, don’t let them know you are actually speaking about our company’, and he responded with, ‘Yes dear….’
If all of this playing around behind the scenes isn’t disgusting enough for you.  Try this from PureHealth100‘s Facebook page:
Hey Everyone. Check out celebrity nutritionist and natural health expert Dr. Lindsey Duncan talking about Superfoods that will help you slim down this summer. Like Pure Saffron from Pure Health! Thanks for the support Dr. Lindsey!
Aren’t they lucky to have an in with the doctor who seemed to break this story and bring it to the popular media.  What are the odds of having his support!
I am not sure I believe anything this guys says… remember when I gave him a pass when he said he doesn’t promote weight loss super foods… check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWw0xliqAnE&feature=youtu.be
Apparently, that is all he does, while never once disclosing that those are all his products he is selling.

Conclusion

So, until we hear back from Dr. Oz and the production companies we won’t know how deep this conspiracy to sell questionable supplements goes.  We know that Dr. Oz put Lindsey Duncan on the air.  He failed to ask any pertinent questions and failed to catch any of the MANY misstatements that Lindsey Duncan made.  Dr. Oz gave him questions that appeared to be intended to help Lindsey Duncan promote his own brands of Coffee Beans.  No one disclosed the fact that they were selling these products and that was the reason for the fake hype of the product on this show.  It wasn’t until alter the show that Lindsey Duncan even disclosed that he was selling this product at all, and when he stated that he was making a FULL disclosure, he failed to disclose that his wife and his business partner were the directors of the other company he was recommending.  He went to great lengths to hide his relationship with this company.  Lindsey Duncan spent all of his time pretending that there was a medical reason for his suggestions of supplier when in fact he just wanted to get the most bang for the hype he was creating for green coffee beans and he did not want the money to go to other scammers.  In any other industry (nutriceuticals, I shudder to call that an industry and not just simply a scam) and in any other profession (nutritionalist), there would be dire consequences for actions so unethical.  Lucky for Dr. Lindsey Duncan, this is just business as usual.
1,296 Comments leave one →
  1. Debra permalink
    September 23, 2012 1:43 pm

    Thanks for your work on connecting the dots between Lindsey Duncan et al. I just started doing some research myself because I found it to be very strange (interesting) that the very day Dr. Oz had a 2nd segment on Green Coffee Bean Extract, he featured a Trademarked ingredient called Svetol. The only company that had Svetol “For Sale” was Genesis Today and Pure Health 100 & had not been available “for sale” on either website until that very same day that Dr. Oz spoke about Svetol. That is not an accident or coincidence. Lindsey Duncan has GT as their retail company selling the Health Food Industry; Pure Health 100 is his company that sells to the Mass Market; he then has one other company that is a MLM, can’t remember the name of that company right now. What I am curious to find out and digging out research on, is this: Dr Oz suggests that people look for GCA or Svetol. GCA is Trademarked by Applied Food Sciences, Inc., also located in Austin TX. Have you come across any references of the two of them working together? I guess that it could be simply that they use each other to springboard product into the market… I wonder if it goes deeper than that.

    • April 6, 2013 1:21 pm

      He’s not only a great nutritionist… but also a great marketer 🙂 He’s part of the Duncan/Heinz family

      • Lars permalink
        June 29, 2013 9:44 am

        Ketchum, just in fair play, Lindsey Duncan is NOT a member of the Duncan/Heinz family as you wrote above. The company you are referring to is Duncan Hines, and it was founded by a man named Duncan Hines. Family name is Hines. His last name just happens to be the same as the first name of the man that started that company. No relation. Still unsure what I will do. If anyone can help me discern fact from fiction, I would greatly appreciate it. Links to facts would be great. Unsubstantiated claims(either way) don’t help

      • June 30, 2013 3:30 pm

        Fred… I am not here to provide you with proof. I am here to say the compensation plan is the same for everybody and the products are the same for everybody. There are those who are successful and there are those who quit and there are those who blog about scams. I prefer to be successful and have already achieved that.

        And we have seen your crap so many times as well. Unsuccessful people who have no legitimate authority in the condemnation of network marketing. You guys remind me of this female character… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZiw15VgWoI

      • Lars permalink
        June 30, 2013 4:52 pm

        Mark,
        Is my information incorrect? I searched heavily for a connection to Duncan/Heinz family and could find none. I was told by a someone recruiting me that he was a member of that family as well and when I asked him(after researching) he admitted he could find no proof of such a connection. I’m not saying that this discredits him, unless he has been claiming to be something he is not. Can you please direct me to some proof that he is a member of that family? If not, nothing wrong with admitting there was misinformation passed along. I respect the guy I have been talking to a lot for admitting he passed along misinformation. I don’t have a side here. Unbiased third party considering joining Genesis Pure. Thanks in advance for your response, clarification, or retraction.

    • June 30, 2013 6:56 pm

      Your info could be correct as I can not find a link either except for a couple of blogs that claim this and they are not from LIndsey but from marketers. So it doesn’t look like it is true. I had heard it word of mouth… and it seems like whisper down the line.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        June 30, 2013 11:52 pm

        There are so many false claims from Lindsey that are parroted by the MLM members. Things like being flown into the White House and healing presidents and first families for years. Utter crap! Everyone knows it, but he probably told some people at one of your meetings and they ended up posting it to the internet and then Lindsey has his plausible deniability and idiots parroting his grandiose claims. You do realize that all of this stuff just reeks of scam. It only hurts his reputation.

      • July 1, 2013 5:24 am

        Please show where you found that he was not flown to the White House… thanks.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 2, 2013 1:34 pm

        Lol… prove that he was not flown to the White House? That is pushing it, even for you. These are claims that his followers are making. You can’t make up claims and then tell everyone to prove them false. For starters, I doubt that anyone believes these claims, so that is a waste of time. If you believe them though, prove to me that he was. I have not even come across him claiming that once, not in any of his ‘lofty’ autobiographical materials. How about you just tell me which presidents and which first families he was flown in to help, and what he was there to help them with… That might be a start. Some information that is a little less vague… Do you actually believe this claim?

      • July 3, 2013 8:56 am

        There is a famous article in Health Living Magazine that speaks to this… do your research.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 3, 2013 12:32 pm

        Mark… please don’t keep doing this. If there is an article, tell me the issue… I have now gone through every magazine that Lindsey Duncan identifies on his website. I have searched every article in any magazine that has health and living in the title and have not found one reference to ‘President’ or ‘White House’. Please send a link if there is an article. As well, please send relevant information. Your link for the water scam was to send me a study of oxygenated water, and that isn’t what Genesis Today sells. They sell a mineral solution to add to your water…

    • rhoustRot permalink
      November 3, 2013 9:03 am

      Genesis Pure is the MLM you are thinking of. The products seem to be good, but very expensive. I am a little disappointed that the Go-Yin contains apple juice. They promote it as a pure exotic juice blend. But it actually lists Apple juice first, which of course is cheap.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        November 14, 2013 11:04 pm

        Is that right? Apple juice is the first ingredient?!!? That isn’t super fruit juice then, it is just plain juice… wow…

      • Tom S. permalink
        March 2, 2014 1:54 pm

        Apple juice is the first ingredient in the “Other Ingredients” which means that it is pretty far down the list of ingredients. Learn to read a product label before you make a comment like this please.

      • Tom S. permalink
        March 3, 2014 4:56 pm

        One thing I forgot to mention is that GoYin started out as it’s own company and became part of Genesis Pure as part of a merger. It seems that it was a good fit for Dr. Lindsey Duncan’s philosophy of Cleanse-Balance-Build, something that he states has been the foundation of his practice through his clinics. There are informational spots on GoYin as well as many other Genesis Pure products available here:

        http://www.youtube.com/gpohio

        The GoYin video is the one originally produced by GoYin before merging with Dr. Lindsey Duncan. It is a good idea for anyone reading this blog to see the information that is put out by Genesis Pure in order to make an educated decision by reviewing both perspectives. It seems like it would be important for those looking at this to see that the company has a legitimate product line and has chosen to market that through an MLM direct sales model. So, ultimately, when looking at Genesis Pure one must simply decide if they believe enough in the products and in Dr. Lindsey Duncan’s credentials as a Naturopath. I think the key to deciding to join any MLM business is in whether or not you see the product as something you want and will continue to purchase regardless of whether or not you succeed with the business side. I joined Pre Paid Legal (now LegalShield) over 12 years ago when in the Navy. I never did anything with the business side, but continue to remain a member and the service has come in handy. I personally find Genesis Pure to be a good line of products as they are all natural and free of things like sucralose that numerous reputable experts are saying to stay away from.

    • Dakota R permalink
      October 30, 2014 12:51 pm

      Ahhhh… I’ve been reading some back and forth and it seems like the coals are being stirred around quite a bit. Interesting development on the legal end for GP. I think I’ll be participating in discussion again.

    • January 19, 2015 8:40 pm

      Well I dont see your point
      My wife and I both use products formulated by Lindsey Duncan and I can testify that they do as he claims and we get our products on time and without question. I also know of many lives touched and changed by his products and his company. So whT if he did not disclose everything on dr oz. look at the food you eat. They don’t tell you how much Rat shit is in your peanut butter but you don’t here people crying about it. So why don’t you. Go find some terrorist and disclose some real information that people NEED to hear

  2. YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
    September 23, 2012 10:39 pm

    His MLM company is Genesis Pure… I know, how original! I looked for a connection between Applied Food Sciences and Dr. Lindsey Duncan and haven’t come up with one. They are both located in the same town and that is fishy as hell! Otherwise, nothing yet. Genesis Pure and Applied Food Sciences do not have any of the same people on their boards, that I could find. Still, how Dr. Oz fits into this I just don’t understand. I hear that Dr. Oz is way out there in his belief in alternative medicines and in episode after episode he makes it clear that he does not even have a rudimentary grasp of the scientific method, still, I cannot believe that he is as dumb as he appears to be with his guest selections. Either he is making them millions and totally unaware while he spreads ridiculous claims that aren’t even remotely backed in science or he is in on it. Neither option makes any more sense to me than the other… I can’t believe that more people aren’t asking the questions though.

    • jakesavage permalink
      October 7, 2013 7:06 pm

      well looks like you have it all figured out and researched well done and im guessing people
      really want your opinion that was sarcasm if you research it

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        October 8, 2013 5:08 pm

        Hey Scott, I do love me some good sarcasm, but the key to the good stuff is, you don’t have to tell the person that it is sarcasm…

    • Ginger permalink
      June 27, 2014 8:47 am

      In fact, most people selling “natural” products do not have qualifications. Either they work for you or they don’t. If you compare the ingredient list from Genesis Pure to the ingredient list for, say, Isagenix, Genesis Pure wins hands down. I’ve just spent half an hour reading this entertaining blog; I actually found myself laughing out loud at the childish interplays. I was on the fence as to whether to try Genesis; this blog convinced me to give it a go. Anything that can inspire such vehement, opinionated venom has to be good enough to inspire it.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 1, 2014 12:03 pm

        Good luck with your use of ‘natural’ products to do whatever it is you think they will do for you. The logic of either they work for you or they don’t is spot on, as it is a truism. The fact is though, for most purposes they simply won’t work for anyone. I have no idea why so much opposition to a product or a fake doctor would inspire you to try something, but I like your reckless spirit! Again, all the best of luck!

      • July 29, 2014 12:32 pm

        Good choice Ginger. I am a certified nutrition consultant and Genesis Pure nutrition products have become my favorite and most productive arsenal in helping people heal and change their lifestyle.

        If you ever need any assistance in reaching your health goals I am more than happy to help. Goji, mangosteen, noni, acai, greens, Mila (chia seeds) daily cleanse, energy are a few of my favorites.

        One person at a time we can make healthy the norm and not the exception in our world. Obesity is a small part of the overall health crisis…it is much bigger than that. Our children deserve better.

        Nutrients ARE the key to a healthy life, we don’t get much more than toxic chemicals in our food supply today which is earning us cancer and a exponentially growing list of chronic illnesses.

        Leslie
        pearlcullers@mac.com

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 29, 2014 2:23 pm

        Leslie,
        What exactly is a ‘certified nutrition consultant’? Who are you certified by? I ask because a statement like, “we don’t get much more than toxic chemicals in our food supply today which is earning us cancer and a exponentially growing list of chronic illnesses.” is so far out of touch with reality it is disturbing. Although many cancer rates haven’t moved, many have dropped significantly and several specific cancers have gone up. Other than obesity related diseases, when corrected for life expectancy, it would be disturbingly and irresponsibly wrong to say that chronic illness is increasing exponentially.

      • July 29, 2014 3:42 pm

        Hi Mark.

        I hope you are having an awesome day, I so love your city of Vancouver…it doesn’t get much more beautiful. We get to take our son there next summer on a pretty cool vaca.

        OK, Such a valid question. I have degree in PT (physical therapy) but in all honesty my recent focus on nutrition since our son was born has proved much more helpful in the real world. I have nutrition certification from AFPA to allow me to consult and help people with their diets, lifestyles and health goals.

        My dad died of cancer when I was 25, which probably started my journey but what really kicked in my passion of wellness and healthy living was my diagnosis of Epilepsy when I was 30. Rocked my world, needless to say. Today I am seizure and med free. I have seen clients shed pounds, arthritis, diabetes, crohn’s, IBS, heart disease, osteoporosis, …a long list of ailments with the addition of pure nutrients (which fuel our cells to do work, heal and regenerate) along with daily habits to purify from side affects of our modern world.

        Do you know what’s in your water? Food ? Air? Pillow ?…You obviously read food labels, so yes most of the food people consume everyday is VERY toxic. Coke, pepsi, fritos, pop tarts, froot loops, deli meet, bread, dairy, eggs,…even the ‘healthy’ labeled stuff is crap.

        Then comes the toxic chemicals that are in everything…The most recent EPA report concludes that pesticide use has increased from 250, 000 lbs. 66 years ago in 1948 …to over 400 BILLION lbs of chemicals used in agriculture today.

        The CDC, Center for Disease Control & prevention, stated just last month ~ may 2014 ~As a nation,” 84% of our health care dollars goes to treatment of chronic diseases. These persistent conditions are now our nation’s leading causes of death and disability.

        Did you know that that healthcare bill equals about 2.1 trillion dollars for JUST for chronic illness alone. THAT is really BIG business and somebody out there is making a ridiculous amount of money from our pain & illness.

        Obesity it just one chronic illness, but I see many clients (kids) every week that are not over weight and have any one of the others. In my humble opinion, autoimmune disorders are some of the worst and most painful and are definitely due to our toxic food supply. Be well and be a blessing.

        Leslie Cullers Healthy Lifestyle Chair RRISD Council of PTAs 512-797-9961

      • August 23, 2014 8:51 am

        Hey Mark.

        So I’m getting alerts again on your blog. Why don’t we chat sometime. I would actually like to understand your depths of research and frustration with Genesis Pure, Genesis Today and Lindsey Duncan.

        I might have some feedback that would allow you to move on and focus on other demons in our world.

        Hope you are having an awesome weekend…its 100 in Austin.

        Leslie Cullers Certified Nutrition Consultant Healthy Lifestyle Chair RRISD Council of PTA 512-797-9961

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        September 1, 2014 12:04 am

        Hey Leslie,

        I don’t know why you are getting alerts on my blog… In any case, I would look forward to chatting some time. I notice you don’t call Lindsey Duncan a doctor… Austin is a beautiful city, you are very lucky. It has been warm here, but not that warm!!
        What is a certified Nutrition Consultant by the way? Does that differ from a certified nutritionist?
        Mark.

      • Stephen permalink
        September 1, 2014 7:39 am

        @YouAreNotAFitPerson – I am also interested in what your motivation is. ….whether or not you have some strong positions or if you are just a pot-stirrer who enjoys mixing things up just for the sake of it. So if you are more than a contrarian who is always looking for the evil in everything….may I recommend that you do a better job of follow through. Three points:
        1. Your straw man arguments (SMA) are tiresome (perhaps intentionally so) – if your intent is other than deception, deflection, or misdirection (throwing out flack), then you need to stick to a topic long enough to get some closure instead of flying all over the place – your chaos method may be working for you (evil leaders and their minions thrive in this format) but truth suffers when it is lost in the shuffle. If SMA’s are your thing…. go into politics. You could do very well!
        2. You ask some very specific questions about details and yet you provide almost no concrete details about yourself or your position (no accountability). It is a powerful way to stay in control but that also is a tool used to manipulate. . Manipulation to get those who are unable to understand truth is what a parent does to child….your forum should be about those seeking truth who are able to digest clean, clear, concise bits of information. On the other hand….manipulation is oftentimes the work of evil and their minions…so identify yourself or clean it up. No accusations here….I am just asking you to “own your stuff”.
        3. In My Opinion (IMO) – you appear to be an intelligent person. Assuming that to be true and following that to what you are doing and giving a fair appraisal to the results by seeking the truth in what you are leaving behind. FYI – I apply the Miller Law of Listening “Believe everything you hear to be true and imagine what it is true of”. Also IMO…. you are either a reckless person who has learned how to dialogue through an aggressive style of making others to make their points (while making none of your own) with no apparent motivation/plan or you are, in fact, just a trouble maker.
        SO….YouAreNotAFitPerson, here is your chance to clear things up….otherwise, the default in this situation is (and rightly should be) that you are not worth any more of my time. flick, flick (the sound made when knocking a piece of fluff off your shoulder)

      • August 23, 2014 7:57 am

        Hi Ginger. So how is your new nutrition protocol going? Genesis Pure has become one of my best tools in helping clients transform their diets and ultimately lifestyles.
        If you want some additional support, I would love to support your goals towards healthy living.

  3. david permalink
    September 25, 2012 12:53 pm

    Look at the whois at NetworkSolutions.com
    Lindsey Duncan comes up as the adminitrator (under GenesisToday.com)

    Are you saying the concept green coffee extract is a fraud? Or just this Linsey Duncan guy?

    I ordered some from Genesis Today si I ‘d like to know..and they charged me but I don’t know if they will ship.

    Hope my info helps!

    Looking forward to hearing from you.

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      September 25, 2012 2:07 pm

      I am saying that there is such a pathetically small amount of evidence to suggest that Green Coffee Extract does anything to help with weight loss that to think that taking it will help with weight loss is pretty imaginative. As for Lindsay Duncan, I have no idea if he is a fraud. I know that he hypes products that have almost no science behind them. I know he talks in psuedo-science and mumbo jumbo. I know he has set up companies in different states and under different names to hide their ownership while he recommends that you buy from them. In my opinion, that is the behavior of a con artist, of someone who takes advantage of consumers so that he can line his pockets. I also know that all the products that he recommends, he also sells… He still believes and promotes ideas such as cleanses and the PH diet, ideas that have been so thoroughly debunked that anyone who associates themselves with them should be humiliated. At the end of the day though, some people truly hold onto ideas that have been clearly shown to be crazy. These people deeply believe these things and won’t let go. Lindsay Duncan may very well believe that all of the stuff he is promoting may actually help you, and he is only amassing a small fortune as a side effect of making people better. So, I don’t know if he is a fraud or not. I do know that how he is selling what he is selling is wrong, very wrong. As well, I have no idea where he got his PhD from, or even what credentials he has to title himself Doctor. I have not found anything out about his educational background and I have not seen it posted anywhere. His credentials are a mystery and that is very suspicious. I keep asking, but he won’t answer. Almost every other doctor and I would say, every legitimate doctor I have seen, includes their education and credentials, including licensing body on their website.

      • March 22, 2014 8:11 pm

        I went to the American Academy of Dramatic Arts in California 1982 to 1984. Lindsey Duncan was one of my classmates. “Dr” Lindsey Duncan is the same guy.

      • hi life permalink
        April 26, 2014 3:03 am

        Who are you by the way? I think you are the scammer here. Do your research and just shut the hell up. You have absolutely no knowledge about Lindsey and Genesis Pure. Sad person. Sad blog. Just crap!

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        April 28, 2014 3:19 pm

        So enlighten us. What part of this blog is crap? ‘Dr’ Lindsay’s credentials? Oxygenated water?

    • April 6, 2013 1:22 pm

      No, he is not a fraud. Just a great nutritionist and marketer.

      • Jeffrey permalink
        January 21, 2014 5:49 pm

        I gained 25 pounds from using the “Doctor”‘s products. I lost sleep. In the end, I was having shaking fits. Horrible stuff.

  4. david permalink
    September 25, 2012 9:48 pm

    Well, I am still waiting for this website to call me back as to whether or not they have shipped my order. It might be a coincidence but here is the reference to the Lindsey Duncan associated with
    GenesisToday.com http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/genesistoday.com

    • david permalink
      September 26, 2012 3:23 pm

      Checked with their website today. The operator said Duncan is connected to the website and that sice the show they have expedreinced heavy orders, been backordered, and my ordere will be sent in a few days. We’ll see.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        September 26, 2012 6:51 pm

        Good luck David. The company has received a number of complaints but most of them are because they take awhile to fill orders. They seem to deliver in the end.

      • tryingtoloseweight permalink
        November 28, 2012 12:45 pm

        David,

        Did you get your supply? Does he help you lose weight?

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      September 26, 2012 6:50 pm

      Hey David. Yes, Lindsey Duncan has admitted to being involved with Genesis Today after he was outed. That was an easy find. The one he is still deceptively quiet about is Pure Health. The company was registered under his wife’s name in Nevada just weeks before he went on the Dr. Oz show. He has said nothing about his ownership. If he (or his wife) own that company and he hasn’t owned up to it, that would make him one of the biggest scum buckets out there.

      • April 6, 2013 1:23 pm

        He did not have to admit because he was “outed”… LOL… how can you hide the fact that you are the formulator and founder of a company? You act as if her were hiding it… he never did.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        April 24, 2013 10:18 pm

        Mark, We can agree to disagree about Lindsey Duncan and his products, but I don’t think you understand this one at all. The guy whose company you have partnered with (or whatever terminology you want to use), has gone behind the MLM company, had his wife register another company that you make no money from, and he is recommending that people buy the products from them instead of the MLM that you are working with. Furthermore he has hidden this new company from EVERYONE and still hasn’t admitted to ownership. If I partnered with someone who ended up promoting another company that competed with mine I would be furious with that person!! The company is PURE HEALTH. This is not one of the genesis companies.

      • April 25, 2013 5:03 am

        I am well aware of PURE Health as are most of us. Dr. Lindsey doesn’t keep these secret from us… but maybe just because you don’t know of it, it must be that nobody knows of it. Kind of like atheism. They don’t know God therefore He doesn’t exist.

        Your logic, I must admit, has be baffled. Dr. Lindsey Duncan can do whatever he wants and it doesn’t compete with Genesis PURE… PURE Health doesn’t have Go-Yin, or the 100% superfruits, nor does it have daily build, the GPS line, the weight management line the 7 day detox or the 30 day health trim, the energy line, etc… they are proprietary to Genesis PURE.

      • April 25, 2013 5:08 am

        And I like how you assume that this is his company… cannot his wife have a venture? This is called capitalism… in America…

        She is a certified nutritionist you know and has her own companies… and since she is married to a world renowned nutritionist… their philosophies in nutrition mesh and she and he use his products that he has formulated.

        http://www.cherylwheelerduncan.com

      • April 25, 2013 5:14 am

        I started typing about his clinic and realized that I was not typing about his Wal-Mart line. His walmart line does have the superfruits and others, but we know about that as well. He has had his products in Wal-Mart for a bit now.

      • October 22, 2013 11:53 am

        Genesis Today is the mother company of Genesis PURE. It is the company he started first. Everything is legit and every product he develops is organic. Have you tried the product at all or do you just want something to argue about. I have been involved with Genesis PURE for a year now and I love it. Dr Duncan was born into a rich family. He’s not a get rich quick guy. The only thing he wants to do is help people heal themselves. Try the product, go to a meeting, Do something before you judge someone you know nothing about.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        October 22, 2013 11:55 am

        Really… tell me about this rich family he was born into….

      • Micah Zak permalink
        January 3, 2014 3:54 pm

        So, you’re just anti-commerce? What if the products were free and they actually did what the reports say they do? Would you be against him then? My entire family has used the Green Coffee extract, as well as friends and associates. I used both Dr. Lindsey’ stuff AND the product from iherb.com and lost 15lbs without changing anything in diet or exercise in 2 months. My wife list 10lbs, and my buddy James lost 30 lbs (he had more to go than us). The Genesis Pure product GoYin gave my youngest daughter the ability to go regularly (something she has struggled with for 10 months) and thanks to the additional nutritional supplements we take, I no longer drink soda or coffee. I’m not promoting ANYTHING here, just saying I take them. If Dr. Lindsey wants to make some money on me, thanks to the results we’ve seen, he’s welcome to it. Cheers!

      • Tom S. permalink
        March 2, 2014 2:00 pm

        Dr. Lindsey Duncan was outed from Genesis Today? Where is that information, as on the current website for Genesis Today it attributes him as the founder of the company in their “About Us” section.

      • January 19, 2015 8:51 pm

        What difference does it make if he owned the company or not.

  5. LArry Tacker permalink
    December 10, 2012 2:28 pm

    Dr. Lindsey Duncan might not just be unethical, he could be downright illegal. He (and his company, Genesis Today) appear to be in violation of Texas Penal Code 32.52 regarding the use of a Fraudulent, Substandard or Fictitious Degree to promote a business.

    “Dr.” Duncan claims his doctoral degree (he has no actual undergraduate degree) in “natural medicine” from Clayton College of Natural Health, a “distance learning” insitution that happens to appear on an official State of Texas website (the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board) under “Institutions Whose Degrees Are Illegal to Use in Texas, as determined by Texas Educational Code, Chapter 61, Section 61.302

    (http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/index.cfm?objectid=6941C34E-DF3E-4B42-288239D3FC3ACD29)

    How he gets away with that, I don’t know.

    • Randy permalink
      August 12, 2013 6:53 pm

      He got around it because his ‘stage name’ is Dr. Lindsey. Should never be called Dr. Duncan because no, he doesn’t have a medical degree. Anybody can put a ‘dr’ in front of their name and it doesn’t infringe upon anything. However most people don’t know that. Also 98% of the accusations are true. I’m a former and very disgruntled employee. I would know. Don’t buy into this crap.

      • Robert permalink
        August 12, 2013 9:59 pm

        “Also 98% of the accusations are true. I’m a former and very disgruntled employee. I would know. Don’t buy into this crap.”

        Randy – care to elaborate? I would be very interested to know your story.

    • Lilly permalink
      November 5, 2013 9:49 pm

      Falonkristine do your research. The genesis pure website clearly states that MOST of their products are NOT certified organic! Open your eyes people!!

  6. linda permalink
    January 15, 2013 2:54 pm

    hiya just posted this website to several major news networks….reallllly hope someone decides to do a story soon…i purchased 4 bottles this “doctor” recommended and and then called them to ask why the dose the doctor recommended was higher then the study….the guy had no answer…and then suddenly blurted out that A LOT OF WATER SHOULD BE CONSUMED WITH EACH SERVING….so i said …oh okay any reason why?…he said well the doctor and his colleagues believe this is important…..so I said well how many glasses of water?…are you saying more then the daily recommendation of 8 glasses of 8 ounces a day?…Because I already consume 16 glasses which is equal to a gallon…he says yeah Dr. Duncan recommends 25 glasses of water a day…..I LITERALLY SHOUTED “WHAT???” INTO THE PHONE…it set me off! I said sir do you know if you drink more then a gallon of water a day you can do yourself serious harm!?….the rep did not know what to say…..I hung up…and started a web search right away and thank GOD i came across this one….anyway I called back and had them immediately cancel my order after i spoke to my nutritionist…whom was pissed at me for not even consulting her to begin with…LESSON LEARNED AND THANK YOU!!!.

    • Mrs. V permalink
      September 23, 2013 8:15 am

      You can not do yourself serious harm by drinking more than a gallon of water of day.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        September 23, 2013 8:50 am

        As a blanket statement this simply isn’t true. Your body can eliminate about 1 litre of water (1/4 gallon) an hour through the kidneys during normal operation. Drinking just over a gallon of water a day, spread out over the day certainly isn’t going to cause an average person any harm, but there are many cases (although rare) and several ways that drinking excessive water can kill you. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=strange-but-true-drinking-too-much-water-can-kill

    • August 23, 2014 8:04 am

      Hi Linda. So what product did you purchase from Genesis Pure?

  7. Portia permalink
    January 30, 2013 7:06 pm

    His blog says, “Dr. Lindsey moved to California in 1982 to study with the legendary and distinguished detoxification expert Bernard Jensen, D.C., PhD. Dr. Lindsey studied and worked with Dr. Jensen for several years, spending much of his time assisting Dr. Jensen at his famous healing retreat in Escondido, California. After being certified by Dr. Jensen in many healing modalities and techniques, Dr. Lindsey completed his alternative health education with dual degrees in Nutrition and Naturopathy.”

    I’m unaware of a state in which another doctor can just “certify” you to do something – certification is usually done under the purview of a state board. In fact, according to the State of California’s website on naturopathic doctors, “In order to be licensed as a naturopathic doctor in California, NDs must graduate from a school accredited by the Council of Naturopathic Medical Education that offers a graduate degree of Doctor of Naturopathy or Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine. The education requirements consist of at least 4,100 hours of training, of which not less than 2,500 hours are academic training and not less than 1,200 hours are supervised clinical training. ND license candidates must also pass a licensing exam that is administered by the North American Board of Naturopathic Examiners.”

    And there isn’t a Lindsey Duncan listed as a naturopathic doctor in the State of California, where he supposedly owned and operated the “Home Nutrition Clinic” in Santa Monica: http://www.naturopathic.ca.gov/consumers/lookup_bylastname.pdf

    And business license searches, California corporation and limited liability company searches don’t produce any results for a “Home Nutrition Clinic” in Santa Monica. Anyone have any additional info on this purported clinic where “Dr. Lindsey” supposedly treated Chernobyl victims?

    • beth permalink
      September 5, 2013 7:55 am

      Actually, certification is not usually done through the state. It’s licensure that is credentialed and approved through the state.

  8. Beau Aplin permalink
    February 9, 2013 4:28 pm

    You are incredibly uninforned and lack even the basic knowledge it takes to know anything about Dr. Lindsey ‘s products. The company was created due to a 200 day waiting list for Dr. Lindseys patients at his clinic. The reason the dosage fluctuates in different videos is simply because of the other nutrition companies copying the green coffee bean(ex. The exact company you listed) so he added a black Pepper extract to speed up the process of the extract entering the bloodstream. Dr. Lindsey will not hesitate to discuss his involvement with Genesis pure, and I am certain that athletes such as Tony Dorsett, and celebrities such as Jaime foxx and Jennifer anniston would slap the Shit out of you after reading this bullshit.You should also know that Genesis Pure doesn’t even have a rasberry extract weight loss pill, not one. Are you bashing Dr. oz or Dr. Lindsey? The lack of credible information here is sad, and the writing is terrible you should be sad you are the way you are. You should at least try to expose something you know a little bit about. I would say this was a waste of your time but you made it very apparent your time isn’t valuable in the least bit. Genesis Pure is the best thing that has ever happened to medicine period.

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      February 9, 2013 11:23 pm

      Oh my god… I am laughing so hard… I don’t think I can even respond… Beau, are you sure you aren’t Dr. Lindsay writing as a pseudonym? Laughing so hard… Need… to … get… my breath… Please tell Jennifer Anniston to come on over and slap the shit out me… lmao!!

      • jake savage permalink
        November 25, 2013 8:11 pm

        you have alot of anger no sarcasm its sad your so closed minded about
        this you dont have to agree or like it but it comes across as an attack
        just a thought

    • February 27, 2013 5:53 pm

      Beau, don’t waste your time. This is his page and he can say what ever he wants. Sad thing is that if he really knew Dr. Lindsey he would apologize. One day this young man will eat his words.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        April 1, 2013 1:23 am

        Not likely, but think what you will. I can post what I want, but you will notice, I am letting you post what you want too. Thank you for your comment.

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      April 1, 2013 1:39 am

      Beau,
      Are you sure about this, do you want to split hairs between Genesis Pure and Genesis Today? You will note in the article above, I specifically mentioned Genesis Today as Lindsey Duncan’s website. True though that Dr. Duncan also owns the MLM scheme Genesis Pure. So , you say, “You should also know that Genesis Pure doesn’t even have a rasberry extract weight loss pill, not one. ” Which appears to be true, but what is your point, when clearly Genesis Today happily sells this crap? Ihttp://www.genesistoday.com/products/raspberry-ketone

    • Tom S. permalink
      March 2, 2014 2:25 pm

      Beau,

      Consider the source of this entire blog. The guy tells us in his “About Me” section that he is an architect. If he wanted to gain credibility he should have some type of credentials as a Nutritionist, Dietician, Naturopath, etc. The fact that he doesn’t claim these would indicate that he does not have them. This blog is kind of hilarious, as this guy appears to be doing this entire blog to promote his book that he wrote. Ironically his belief appears to be that fit, healthy people are not qualified to give health, fitness, and nutritional advice to “average” people. This whole blog appears not so much to be toward bashing Genesis PURE™, Genesis Today, or Dr. Lindsey Duncan, but to lead people to buying the book he wrote… a book about nutrition by someone without credentials in the field of nutrition. I am sure that any intelligent person who compares the claims and credentials of this blog to the claims and credentials of Dr. Lindsey Duncan will see that this entire blog is nothing but Internet propaganda. I am really not sure how anyone can take this blog seriously when the author of this blog appears to have a personal agenda with this. I am sure this comment will be berated by the author, and really it’s probably a waste of time to put it up. Anyone who wishes to see Dr. Lindsey’s credentials can view the videos that show him presenting on some of the biggest stages in the health and nutrition industry on:

      http://www.youtube.com/gpohio

    • August 23, 2014 8:11 am

      Hi Beau. If you ever need support with your Genesis lifestyle, please feel free to contact me. No need to give away your inner peace to opinions of those you know are false.
      I have trained at Genesis Pure manufacturing facility and seen first hand how they operate. The motto across the board is literally…”just do the right thing”. It is an amazing facility and yes… organic and kosher certified.

  9. Beau Aplin permalink
    February 9, 2013 4:55 pm

    “At this point he said something else. I had to stop and rewind the video segment several times to make sure I heard him correctly; Duncan reports that participants consumed 2400 calories and states “they burned only 400 calories, now that’s weight gain, not weight loss.”

    Wow.

    Is Duncan seriously suggesting that an average 170-180 lbs individual only needs 400 calories per day to survive? A simple test with a BMR (basal metabolic rate) calculator will show you that the amount of calories required is actually closer to 4 times that number!”

    ……..did you even read what you typed? He said they consumed 2,400 calories and burned 400, that is weight gain and 2,400 -400=2,000…… Where the fuck did you get the notion he claimed you only need 400 calories a day?? Also the google maps picture you posted ” there’s no way there are two companies in those buildings in Austin Tx,” newsflash I have been there personally and the reason it isn’t a large building is because it isn’t the distribution hub It’s a clinic in Austin. The products are and packaged out of the country because the soil in the U.S can’t support the superfruits in the product. The more I read the more this articles credibility drops.

  10. Justin permalink
    February 24, 2013 7:28 pm

    Thanks!

  11. February 27, 2013 5:45 pm

    To whom it may concern, I have lost over 30 lbs taking green coffee bean from Genesis Pure. I personally know of several others that have had significant results using GP products. Thank you, Mrs. Terisa C.

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      February 27, 2013 5:55 pm

      Terisa, I am trying to be a little more diplomatic than I as with some of the past shills that have commented here. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt… prove to me that you have a) lost 30 pounds. Before and after pictures of YOU, in the last 6 months… Receipts on the purchases of your Green Coffee Been Extract… Your whole name… A signed affidavit from close family, maybe a partner that you have made NO lifestyle changes over the time that you lost the weight, other than the ingestion of GCBE…. Something more than a first initial and a last name. Please give me more than that with your ludicrous claims… Do you know how many shills there are for your company and other fitness products who lie at will to drum up sales? Why would we believe you without evidence????

      • March 8, 2013 11:57 am

        You don’t deserve a response. You don’t know what you are talking about!

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        April 1, 2013 1:23 am

        No problem Lori, if you think of a response great. Otherwise, thanks for the almost comment.

      • Pam permalink
        July 8, 2014 2:43 pm

        YouAreNotAFitPerson.,….you are an asshole

      • August 23, 2014 8:40 am

        I don’t know Terisa, but congratulations on your success. If you need some support maintaining your weight loss I am happy to help. The green coffee bean is not one of my ‘go to’ products unless a client is keenly focused on weight loss. Actually, adding nutrients and removing toxins from our body is the key to sustainable weight and good health.

    • Micah Zak permalink
      January 3, 2014 4:00 pm

      Terisa: I posted my GP testimonial above. I lost 15lbs and my wife lost 10lbs, and our friend James list 30lbs in two months with the Green Coffee bean. No diet or exercise changes. Glad to hear you found something that provides success!

      • joe smith permalink
        March 23, 2014 9:27 am

        Micah, you stated earlier that you gave up soft drinks and coffee. I did the same and lost 45 lbs over 9 months without taking anything. Duh…..

  12. slola permalink
    March 8, 2013 5:29 pm

    Have you looked into a company that also sells Green Coffee Extract called “VerifiedGreenCoffee.com.” I placed an order for $63.95 and received an email explaining that the product usually takes about a week to receive. The email also gave the names of Mark Millwood (mark@verifiedgreencoffee.com) and Jen Morgan (jen@verifiedgreencoffee.com) as managers. I emailed them with some questions but haven’t heard back. Not sure they are real people at all.

    Anyway, I received the product a few days ago. The odd thing about them is they claim their product is manufactured in the USA, but when I paid for it via PayPal, the receipt was for someone named Benediktas Gylys (which seems to be someone in or from Lithuania). Also, the address listed for the company is 50 W North Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84150 — this happens to be the Mormon Tabernacle in Utah (no joke! — just google map it).

    More on this from posts on the company’s facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/VerifiedGreenCoffee

    Anyway, I did a little more searching on the name Benediktas Gylys and saw that someone named Ben Gylys was the CEO of “Certified Raspberry Ketones.” See here: http://www.emailwire.com/release/89747-Certified-Raspberry-Ketones-Continues-to-Help-People-Lose-Weight-and-Feel-Great.html

    This in is rather suspicious since Dr. Oz did a show on raspberry ketones a while ago too. I think Oz is definitely involved in something slimy here. I’m now just really intrigued to see if these guys (Ben Gylys, Jen Morgan, and Mark Millwood from Verified Green Coffee/Certified Raspberry Ketones) are also affiliated with Lindsey Duncan and Genesis PURE — if so, it’s a multilevel marketing ring that just keeps growing! And Dr. Oz is probably profiting somehow…and I think it’s probably illegal too.

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      April 1, 2013 1:22 am

      I have no idea of any connections with this company, as you point out, it is clearly a shadow corporation. It’s address is the Morman Tabernacle. It does not appear to be an American company and their own facebook page lists hundreds of unsatisfied customers demanding and not receiving refunds. Quite honestly, the number of shady business people and con artists involved in the selling of Raspberry Ketones and Green Coffee Extract is amazing. It would be impossible to track them all down. The work that government officials did on behalf of the supplement companies in gutting the protections for the consumer with respect to Supplements is mind boggling and to honestly believe that you are getting any form of the supplement you paid for from any company that isn’t a long standing supplement company, ideally with a presence at brick and mortar stores is insane. Don’t buy these weight loss fraud products at all, but if you do, don’t buy them online. There are many stores that carry these products… they probably won’t work, they will likely not have the supplement they advertise, but you will at least get to try them and find out for yourself.

    • Sam permalink
      April 1, 2013 6:48 am

      A lot of companies are based out of Salt Lake City, UT because of the tax benefits. The Genesis company is almost 10 miles from the temple.

    • Micah Zak permalink
      January 3, 2014 4:04 pm

      Affiliate marketing, or market cloning, is very popular with “culturally hot items.” I’m a web designer and marketer, and we run into a lot of companies that are looking to “ride the waves” of popular trends VerifiedGreenCoffee.com is no different. Just another company looking to “get-in” on the fun.

  13. slola permalink
    March 8, 2013 5:59 pm

    By the way, this is hilarious (since she’s basically just pushing Genesis products on local Austin TV): http://www.frequency.com/video/cheryl-wheeler-duncan-losing-unwanted/71489783/-/5-2414961

  14. Sam permalink
    March 23, 2013 6:17 pm

    All I know is that my husband started drinking the Pure Cafe drink, and he’s got more energy and no longer wants his daily coffee. I met a 7 yr old little girl today that has had chronic constipation since she was 2 months old and after taking the cleanse products for 3 days, she’s starting to go a little each day. She’s been to doctors for years. Me, myself, I’ve had swollen gums for 2 or 3 months, and 3 days of taking the cleanse, balance, build core products, I no longer have that problem. The products from Genesis Pure work, and if you try them, you’ll find the same thing out

  15. Sam permalink
    March 23, 2013 7:18 pm

    Didn’t Dr. Lindsey Duncan win a Vity Award for his 4Health, Inc products? Wasn’t he put up for an Entrepreneur Award around 1996? Wasn’t he flown into the White House by presidents since the mid 80’s? Wasn’t he the guy that told us 2 decades ago we needed to cleanse our body of toxins? Wasn’t he the one that discovered (with some of his 40,000 hours of research) that the Chlorogenic Acid in green coffee bean was good for us, long before anyone else? Please correct me if I’m wrong.

  16. j. blanchette permalink
    March 29, 2013 12:00 am

    Dr.Duncan’s credentials aren’t a scam, exactly what credentials do you have behind you to be an “expert” on analyzing businesses? jb, Tx.

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      April 1, 2013 1:14 am

      Ms. Blanchette, I have never claimed to be an expert on analyzing businesses and to that effect, I have shared in this blog post, each and every business relationship that I have found in the records. You or anyone else, is free to review these relationships and derive your own analysis. As for Dr. Duncan’s credentials… it does truly look like they are a scam.
      “”Dr.” Duncan claims his doctoral degree in “natural medicine” from Clayton College of Natural Health, a “distance learning” insitution that happens to appear on an official State of Texas website (the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board) under “Institutions Whose Degrees Are Illegal to Use in Texas, as determined by Texas Educational Code, Chapter 61, Section 61.302″ – From a Previous Comment
      I have since confirmed that this is true. I believe it is a crime for Dr. Lindsey Duncan to call himself a Doctor. I have since written the state Attorney General and the Board of Higher Education. We will see where this falls out. Thank you for your comment

      • October 7, 2013 7:10 pm

        you sound like someone who likes to hear himself blog good luck with that
        whats on your hit list next the pope

      • Dakota R permalink
        October 8, 2013 2:15 am

        Oh boy…

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        October 8, 2013 5:11 pm

        I don’t even know what to say to this painful attack on the activities of Lindsey Duncan, from his purchasing his degree from a diploma mill to his ridiculous hyping of useless products to his hidden network of companies competing with each other… I am not sure why I would go after the pope though… is he recommending some christian diet and weight loss supplement?

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        October 8, 2013 5:12 pm

        So, Scott you went to the No Limits event earlier this year, did you sign up and are you a Genesis Pure IBO?

      • Mack permalink
        July 7, 2014 2:27 pm

        just want you to know that I have been reading this blog because my sister has gotten so into this genesis pure stuff that it scares me. She talks about Dr. Duncan as if he is the most brilliant and respected man in all of medical science. I appreciate you digging this information up. I look forward to an opportunity to share it with my sister. She has started selling the stuff and her obsession is NOT healthy. She has been brainwashed and she should know that he is not even a legitimate doctor with a degree from a recognized school.

  17. William permalink
    March 30, 2013 9:58 pm

    I am disturbed by the fact that you call yourself a writer. I am a writer and this was the most poorly written article I have ever read. It was a morass of mediocrity with gobs of grammatical gaffes. You should be ashamed of yourself. You seriously need to consider paying an editor to proofread your work before releasing it to the world.

    How do you expect any intelligent person to give credence to your research with this elementary school effort? In addition, your responses to some of the comments from others reveal a distinct intellectual immaturity and unnecessary defensiveness. It is a pity, given that you appear to have some valid points. You should have let your facts speak for themselves. Instead, you descended to the level of the gutter to derisively dismiss the opinions of others. Again, you should be ashamed.

    I strongly suggest that you take this as constructive criticism for any future endeavors.

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      April 1, 2013 1:06 am

      Clearly William, you are a poet, and your alliteration certainly speaks to that point. I apologize if my writing was not up to a standard that you are used to in your online blog perusals and I, like all of those who must accept your withering criticism, accept it in the constructive manner in which it was clearly intended. Further to that vein, could you help and illuminate me; should I attempt to get this article edited before re-releasing it, what were the valid points that you felt could speak for themselves?
      Thank you in advance for your response.

    • Coyo permalink
      June 21, 2013 7:18 am

      William, you missed a comma in your second sentence. You have joined two sentences with the word “and” without using a comma. You might want to have a talk with your editor. I believe this gaffe is called a “run on sentence”. I understand the irritation caused by incorrect grammar, but if you feel it affects the credibility of the statements, then your error would discredit your statement as well. Fortunately, not all intelligent people are unable to sort through imperfect articles.

      • November 13, 2013 7:09 pm

        It’s a blog on the internet. You know why he doesn’t employ an editor? Because it’s a blog on the internet. Yeah, I started a sentence with ‘because’ without making it a precursor to a main clause. I did it because I could. Being a writer doesn’t mean you have perfect grammar. It means you have things to say that you think people will want to read. It means you have the ability to connect ideas in a way that is understandable and has flow. I didn’t have a problem with this read.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        November 14, 2013 11:00 pm

        Hey Landon, thanks for reading and your comment!

      • Micah Zak permalink
        January 3, 2014 4:08 pm

        Agreed. A blog is someone’s opinion posted for people to read and consider… as are comments. Let’s be respectful of that privilege.

  18. John permalink
    April 4, 2013 11:31 am

    Looks like an attempt to bash anything popular in order to sell some books… “Listen to me not him” kinda thing. Nice “detective” work. I tried reading the whole thing, but your “gotchas” were just to weak to hold my attention.

  19. Truth Seeker permalink
    April 21, 2013 9:42 pm

    Lindsey is a snake oil promoter extraordinaire. His previous success of building a $370 million dollar nutritional company (4Health, Inc) went bankrupt in 2002 selling essentially the same nutritional shit he sells through Genesis Pure today. There is one born every moment is his business motto. No doubt Lindsey’s defenders on this site are MLM distributors of his snake oil. Oh and Doctor Lindsey is a joke… big big difference between CN and MD… CN is mail order degree vs the clinical trails and actual medical training of a TRUE MD… so please stop the lies and deceptions and drink your overpriced overhyped snake oil…

    • April 22, 2013 7:56 am

      there is a big difference between MD and PhD as well, yet we call them both Doctors. The use of “snake oil” terminology shows your ignorance as well as your bias. I can assure you that you have not tried nor interviewed anybody who has tried these products and experienced incredible results. The idea that “all natural” products and the disclaimer that he makes daily that his products do not heal, yet rather give your body the good stuff it needs to cope in our current environment… is not a new idea, but the “critics” who don’t understand this continue to come out in droves. It is laughable.

    • April 25, 2013 4:49 pm

      would love to see your information on the bankruptcy of 4health.

      • Tony McDonald permalink
        May 14, 2013 11:45 am

        You do not want to go down this road. The whole Surgical Technologies/4Health/Irwin Naturals saga is a disaster. By the way, I’m GP IBO…if I had any biases they would be Pro-Duncan.

      • May 14, 2013 6:50 pm

        I actually would love to travel that road. As an interested Director with the company, I would love to know the history as it is hard to find anything online.

  20. Truth Seeker permalink
    April 21, 2013 9:53 pm

    sic ND for CN

    • April 22, 2013 7:58 am

      Complete Core Requirements

      To receive certification as a nutritionist, you must meet several academic requirements. If you are seeking certification from the Clinical Nutrition Certification Board, or CNCB, you must have a degree in science, health care or nutrition and have studied anatomy, human biology and nutrition to be eligible to take the exam for certification. If you do not have any of these degrees you will have to complete 56 hours of coursework that cover nutrition. The CNCB is a national nonprofit agency that prepares future nutritionists for certification by helping them meet educational requirements as well as offering testing for certification.

      I think he surpasses these requirements by ten fold considering he has over 40,000 clinical hours and has studied under the masters in the genre. Give it up “truth” seeker LOL

      • April 22, 2013 2:36 pm

        Mark-
        Have you disclosed that you work for Genesis PURE? http://screencast.com/t/2g9D9haX
        -David

      • April 22, 2013 7:17 pm

        Disclosed to who? You? Anybody reading this can see and it is pretty obvious who is a supporter of the good Dr. and who isn’t. And I don’t work for Genesis PURE. I actually own my own business… PURE Intent, LLC and one of my product lines is Genesis PURE products. But anybody who had done their research, which you obviously have not, would know that a distributor doesn’t work for the company, but rather is an independent business owner that has the right to sell their product. Does Walmart work for Genesis Today? No, but they market their products. And I would not have invested and marketed a product I do not believe in… not vice versa. Nobody says, “well I sure hope these products are good… here is my money.” No, a good business leader will investigate and make sure the product that he/she is investing in, does what it says it does and that the person behind the product has clout and knows what he is doing as well…. Nice investigative work on your part.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        April 23, 2013 8:02 pm

        Mark. Disclosure is important. I get dozens of people who have bought into Genesis Today commenting here and it is important that people know that you have a financial stake in supporting Lindsey Duncan. Whatever you believe, it is only fair that you let people know this before you give your opinion. However you want to frame your relationship with your MLM scheme, you are financial invested in Lindsey Duncan not looking like a run of the mill con artist.

      • April 24, 2013 8:39 am

        “Mark. Disclosure is important. I get dozens of people who have bought into Genesis Today commenting here and it is important that people know that you have a financial stake in supporting Lindsey Duncan.”

        Actually this statement is false. I don’t have a financial stake in supporting Lindsey Duncan in this forum. I have no expectation that anybody entering this site will ever benefit me financially. I defend him simply because I know him. My money is made honestly and with integrity between family and friends and what they do… not cold calling on a website where people are debating the fruits and labor of somebody else. And if people on this site ever do decide to pursue Genesis PURE I am sure it would be with somebody they know, which is why they are here… to find information, and not with me.

        This is actually wasting time of mine I could spend doing other things, but I am vested emotionally to disinformation from bias and presupposition and no research except websites and other people’s opinions.

  21. Dr Truth permalink
    April 22, 2013 7:33 pm

    Ketchup Doughboy, please inform us if Duncan’s last great miracle breakthrough nutritional company went bankrupt or not? Hmmm? Please inform us as to the efficacy of a multi-vitamin laced with Ginkgo or some other natural herb? Hmmm? Please inform us as to any medical or clinical trials substantiating his absurd claims for ANY of his products? Hmmm? Please tell us the fat commissions (55%) you and other circus promoters get to sell his overpriced vitamins? Hmmm? Please enlighten us Ketchup Doughboy? Looks like you missed out on his green-coffee weight loss miracle pill huh? Free weight loss advice… Push away from the table after the first deep-dish double cheese and pepperoni pizza… Doughboy…LMAO

    • April 23, 2013 4:35 am

      “Ketchup Doughboy” LOL

      I find it interesting that those with the least to offer verbally resort to name calling and ridiculing. It happens between parties, mostly the left, and it happens when somebody has a presupposition or a bias and they simply refuse to see the other side because they may be wrong… so it is off to the name calling races.

      I also notice that they start spewing “facts” without doing their research or even knowing what they are talking about.

      1. Please inform us as to the efficacy of a multi-vitamin laced with Ginkgo or some other natural herb? ————— Very, and anybody who can claim with a straight face that adding a nutrient dense herb to a vitamin is not beneficial should be laughed at.

      2. Please inform us as to any medical or clinical trials substantiating his absurd claims for ANY of his products? ——————– I can, and thank you so much for asking. One of his great products is Mangosteen, a superfruit. Any decent search on any computer with access to the internet could and does bring up multiple clinical trials from reputable sources. Before starting to offer Genesis PURE products I actually did some research on these superfruits. I give you one site here http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01425047 but there are many others and many other sites for all of his products. Thanks for doing your research.

      3. Please tell us the fat commissions (55%) you and other circus promoters get to sell his overpriced vitamins? ————— well the truth be told, we don’t actually sell the products retail. So we don’t get commissions that way. We offer memberships, kind of like a Costco, and others can get their products wholesale that way. Yes we do make good money by doing that, but who would go into business of any kind unless good money was to be made? Who would even manufacture products to sell if there wasn’t some sort of mark-up. If you want zero mark up I would suggest you do what Dr. Lindsey Duncan did and create your own, buy your own farms all over the world, and get your products that way. If you cannot do that, then please don’t complain about all the work being done for you and then there being a mark-up and commissions made.

      4. Looks like you missed out on his green-coffee weight loss miracle pill huh? Free weight loss advice… Push away from the table after the first deep-dish double cheese and pepperoni pizza… Doughboy…LMAO —————— You actually based your opinion on the first picture we posted when we first started with Genesis PURE… LOL. I have actually lost over 26 lbs in the 4-5 months we have been with Genesis PURE. My picture attached to this is more recent, you can’t see everything but my face is thinner in that. I would love to share more recent pictures with you if you are truly interested in what this company can do for you, but I am not interested if all you want to continue to do is resort to what you have done here. It is evident that you don’t do research, but just spew unintelligent and ignorant rhetoric that somebody else told you.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        April 23, 2013 8:20 pm

        Congratulations on the weight loss. I know personally how hard that can be and I commend you on any successes you have had. I am sorry that you were insulted in the comments.
        That said,
        1. Just adding herbs to vitamins probably has no effect, especially when the herbs cited are useless. Further, it isn’t that eating an herb with a vitamin is bad, it is just that there is no evidence that it does what Lindsey Duncan is saying… There just isn’t and no one is producing any. That doesn’t mean it may not do something, but it does mean that whatever it does is a very, very slight effect. Remember how they discovered Viagra. They weren’t looking for an erectile disfunction drug at all, but they couldn’t help but notice the side effects because it had a significant effect!
        2. The trial you listed is for how much bioavailable xanthones appear in urine and blood after ingestion. That has nothing to do with the claims that Lindsey Duncan is making. He says that it fights free radicals, but all current research shows that consuming antioxidants does not reduce free radicals and free radical damage and that it may in fact have the opposite effect. I don’t care how much xanthone is in my body after I eat Mangosteen, I care if it will improve my heart health as Lindsey Duncan claims. Find me a study that shows this. A good clinical study, not the crap that Lindsey Duncan keeps trotting out. I have yet to see 1 study from him that isn’t suspect at best, and the claims he creates from tidbits of information are absolutely astounding and point to him either being remarkably simple minded or a fraud.
        3. Given your relationship with the company, how much money you make might be important to determine your motivation to create stories, but I personally don’t think so. It is an MLM so your hope is to make lots of money. When I dealt with water purifier sales friends (how they turned so many friends into water purifier sellers I will never know), they would say anything about how our drinking water was killing us, even though that simply isn’t true. They didn’t make a lot of money, in fact every one lost money, but they still lied about water because they wanted to make money, just like every member of the Genesis Today MLM…
        4. Again, I apologize for the attack. It was uncalled for.

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      April 23, 2013 8:05 pm

      Hey Dr. Truth, thank you for your comment and your research. Spot on. Please though, no insults as to weight on this site. Losing weight can be hard, and no one needs to be derided. Losing weight while taking cleanses and purifications and green coffee beans is going to be way harder than hard though!

      • April 24, 2013 8:24 am

        Hey Not a Fit person… thanks for the comment, but I disagree with you on how hard it is to lose weight on cleanses and purifications and gcb. Your comment makes no sense and lacks validity. It would be like saying, “you are healthier taking Metoprolol for your b/p for life than you are eating food rich in nutrients and cleansing your body of toxins.” Makes no sense in the real world, but makes perfect sense if you are a pharmacy rep…

  22. April 23, 2013 4:52 am

    please inform us if Duncan’s last great miracle breakthrough nutritional company went bankrupt or not? ———— you inform us. And if it did, what does that mean to you? Or do you not know that many many successful people have filed bankruptcy 1 or more times in their endeavors to start a successful business? LOL

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      April 23, 2013 8:07 pm

      True Mark, but realistically, if he is selling the same stuff that he failed to sell the last time, I doubt it is a miracle in a bottle. If it was half as effective as he was claiming, in a marketplace that is screaming for weight loss cures and whatever other ailments his products solve, the odds of his company going bankrupt are pretty slim. You are right though, Lindsey Duncan’s failures and his previous bankruptcy wouldn’t prove that his products don’t work.

  23. April 23, 2013 5:51 am

    Also, here is a personal story which is every ounce true and no exaggeration, nor embellishment. We started with Genesis PURE on 12/9/13. As you see above, I have since lost 26 lbs and am getting ready to start the 7 day detox and the 30 day trim again at the beginning of the month to get past my plateau. Also, we started the children… 2 twin 5 year old boys and 1 3 year old girl… all adopted… on the Go-Yin. One of our boys has severe ADHD and behavior problems since adoption at 2 years old. Here is the letter we received from his teacher 3 weeks after starting on Go-Yin (the mood stabilizer, marriage in a bottle, the balancer… etc…)

    “Mr. and Mrs. Ketchum,
    I wanted to take a minute to let you both know how proud I am of Jaidon these past couple of weeks. He has “come alive” and is doing so great! He has stopped writing strings of letters that don’t make sense and is writing his own sentences now. His handwriting is awesome, his attitude and behavior are amazing! He is working so hard and putting out so much effort. AND, every day as he leaves, he has started giving me the biggest hugs and telling me he loves me J Melts my heart! I have bragged and bragged to him, but wanted you to be able to do the same.

    Have a wonderful day!
    Mrs. Johnson”

    Since then, we have been invited to the school and shared the product with all the teachers and multiple teachers have since started using GP products and have similar testimonies to tell and yes… we do profit on all of their orders… just as they now profit on all those they share these wonderful products with. These products have changed our lives… and if you want to call it snake oil… so be it… I have personal experiences that say otherwise.

  24. Dr Truth permalink
    April 23, 2013 3:23 pm

    Mark, you are obviously a nice guy… exceedingly gullible but nice.
    The Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI) is the largest consumer advocacy organization in the world whose twin missions are to conduct innovative research and advocacy programs in health and nutrition, and to provide consumers with current, useful information about their health and well-being. CSPI accepts no corporate funds or government grants so it can be totally unbiased.
    The superfruit beverages you see advertised are simply ways for marketers to make money, cautions the Center for Science in the Public Interest, which regards “superfruits” as being of no special nutritional value compared to others.
    A 750 ml bottle — roughly 25 oz. — of GoYin cost around $40, excluding shipping charges vs a bottle of vitamin enriched OJ from HEB $3.99
    If you still persist to operate in your dream world try this for one week. Take your kids off Lindsey’s overpriced “roid” juice and put em on a balanced diet. If you get a letter from Ms. Johnson saying little Johnny is bouncing off the walls, put em back on the stuff… if my way works just as well, which CSPI says it will, save your family and friends lots of $$$
    Sometimes you just believe something cause you really really want to…

    • April 23, 2013 6:38 pm

      Dr. Bias… I don’t need your confirmation of my niceness to get by.

      “Sometimes you just believe something cause you really really want to…”

      Exactly. And here is a review of your revered CSPI… from http://www.alcoholfacts.org/MichaelJacobson.html

      Michael Jacobson and his Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI)

      by David J. Hanson, Ph.D.

      “CSPI is knowingly engaging in deceptive practices as they attempt to persuade the public and the media” and “if CSPI’s efforts were an elementary school science project, young (Michael) Jacobson would have received an ‘F’ and would have found himself in the principal’s office for cheating.”

      Michael Jacobson established the Center for Science in the Public Interest(CSPI)) in 1971, along with two lawyers from one of Ralph Nader’s activist groups. Both lawyers soon dropped out so now, as Executive Director, Mr. Jacobson now operates his own activist group.

      The Center for Science in the Public Interest isn’t a science organization but a special interest advocacy group for public policy. Although it assumes the mantle of science in order to obtain legitimacy for its activities and programs, most of the CSPI’s “science” hardly reaches the level of a high school science project. And high school students don’t have a political agenda for which they distort the evidence or misrepresent the facts as does Michael Jacobson and his Center for Science in the Public Interest.

      “CSPI is knowingly engaging in deceptive practices as they attempt to persuade the public and the media” and “if CSPI’s efforts were an elementary school science project, young (Michael) Jacobson would have received an ‘F’ and would have found himself in the principal’s office for cheating.”

      American Council on Science and Health. 16

      Michael Jacobson calls for heavy taxes on foods of which he disapproves, numerous prohibitions, lawsuits against food producers, beverage producers, and convenience restaurants, to intimidate or force them into complying with his demands. He takes pride in being called the head of the food and beverage police.

      Mr. Jacobson once said that “CSPI is proud of finding something wrong with practically everything.” 1 Indeed, there are dozens and dozens of victims of Mr. Jacobson and his group’s questionable “scientific” studies and political attacks. 2 They include:
      •alfalfa sprouts
      •beer
      •berries
      •cantaloupes
      •clams
      •distilled spirits
      •eggs
      •fat-free ice cream
      •fruit juice
      •garlic bread
      •lettuce
      •melons
      •milk
      •salads
      •shellfish
      •wine

      The list goes on and on. However, “alcohol, even when consumed in moderation, is perhaps CSPI’s most hated product. The group’s Health letter has asserted that “the last thing the world needs is more drinkers, even moderate ones.” CSPI wants hefty increases in beer taxes, increased restrictions on adult-beverage marketing, and even poster-sized warning labels placed in restaurants. 3 Michael Jacobson says “they really should develop an alternative for people to socialize — a real fun coffeehouse. Maybe a carrot-juice house.” 4

      Although drinking continues to decline on American college campuses, Jacobson’s CSPI describes it as a “growing problem,” and although so-called binge drinking also continues to drop, the CSPI falsely asserts that “binge drinking has reached epidemic levels in college communities across the country.” 5

      “Jacobson is a vegetarian and sits on the national board of the animal-rights-oriented “Great American Meatout.” And he won’t touch a cookie. Indeed, Jacobson will not tolerate any of his employees eating “bad” foods. CSPI’s in-house eating policy is so puritanical that Jacobson once planned to permanently remove the office coffee machine — until one-third of his 60 staffers threatened to quit. 6

      The Center for Consumer Freedom notes that under Mr. Jacobson’s leadership and direction CSPI crowed loudly in 1999 when Rosie O’Donnell declined to endorse Frito-Lay’s products containing the fat substitute Olestra (CSPI had received over $50,000 from the Helena Rubenstein Foundation to publicly challenge Olestra’s safety). When it turned out that Rosie merely had a scheduling conflict, and that food safety issues had nothing to do with the decision, Michael Jacobson (CSPI’s president) refused to remove his version of the “truth” from CSPI’s web site. “Let’s say it’s not true,” he announced. “In one way, the Web is history and one could argue that organizations should leave a public record of everything they’ve done and said.” 7

      Of course, one could argue that, by leaving it on the web site without correction, people would believe the falsehood. Ironically, Michael Jacobson and his Center for Science in the Public Interest attack the integrity of others, while at the same time they appear to display a lack of integrity themselves. 8

      Michael Jacobson denies that the four grants CSPI received from Reynolds family interests have had any influence on him or his organization. 9 Perhaps they haven’t, but there is a conspicuous lack of any tobacco page on the CSPI web site, or of any reports, press releases, “studies” or any other evidence of CSPI interest in reducing the serious health hazard of smoking. 10 This is hard to understand, given the fact that smoking is the country’s biggest threat to health and the leading cause of death. 11 And while Jacobson and CSPI try to link cancer to alcohol, they ignores the proven role of smoking! 12

      Michael Jacobson’s Center for Science in the Public Interest warns of the health dangers of C-reactive protein but conveniently chooses not to report that moderate drinkers have only half the levels of the dangerous substance found in alcohol abstainers. Presumably because of its anti-alcohol stance, CSPI somehow feels justified in withholding this important health information that might save people’s lives. So much for the interest of the public! 21

      Our main product is Go-Yin which contains Goji and our Goji juice which is 100% pure with no additives. These are the following nutrients

      Micronutrients and phytochemicals

      Wolfberries contain many nutrients and phytochemicals including
      11 essential and 22 trace dietary minerals
      18 amino acids
      6 essential vitamins
      8 polysaccharides and 6 monosaccharides
      5 unsaturated fatty acids, including the essential fatty acids, linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid
      beta-sitosterol and other phytosterols
      5 carotenoids, including beta-carotene and zeaxanthin (below), lutein, lycopene and cryptoxanthin, a xanthophyll
      numerous phenolic pigments (phenols) associated with antioxidant properties

      Select examples given below are for 100 grams of dried berries.
      Calcium. Wolfberries contain 112 mg per 100 gram serving, providing about 8–10% of the Dietary Reference Intake (DRI).
      Potassium. Wolfberries contain 1,132 mg per 100 grams dried fruit, giving about 24% of the DRI.
      Iron. Wolfberries have 9 mg iron per 100 grams (100% DRI).
      Zinc. 2 mg per 100 grams dried fruit (18% DRI).
      Selenium. 100 grams of dried wolfberries contain 50 micrograms (91% DRI)
      Riboflavin (vitamin B2). At 1.3 mg, 100 grams of dried wolfberries provide 100% of DRI.
      Vitamin C. Vitamin C content in dried wolfberries has a wide range (from different sources[citation needed]) from 29 mg per 100 grams to as high as 148 mg per 100 grams (respectively, 32% and 163% DRI).

      Wolfberries also contain numerous phytochemicals for which there are no established DRI values. Examples:
      Beta-carotene: 7 mg per 100 grams dried fruit.
      Zeaxanthin. Reported values for zeaxanthin content in dried wolfberries vary considerably, from 2.4 mg per 100 grams[36] to 82.4 mg per 100 grams[37] to 200 mg per 100 grams.[38] The higher values would make wolfberry one of the richest edible plant sources known for zeaxanthin content.[39] Up to 77% of total carotenoids present in wolfberry exist as zeaxanthin.[40]
      Polysaccharides. Polysaccharides are a major constituent of wolfberries, representing up to 31% of pulp weight.

      • April 23, 2013 6:39 pm

        It just goes to prove that if you are against something so adamantly you will take anybody’s opinion that adheres to yours without doing any research into the legitimacy of them who are taking your side. I’ve done my research on both sides… you have not.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        April 23, 2013 11:45 pm

        Mark, careful who you quote. You realize that the alcohol facts site is actually not an alcohol facts site at all, but an attack site to any and all organizations who suggest any limitations to alcohol consumption, and includes attacks against organizations such as Mothers Against Drunk Drivers, the AMA and the Center for Substance Abuse Prevention.
        That site is bad, but the Center for Consumer Freedom?? Seriously you should know about Rick Berman, a vile human on the best of days. He takes ‘donations’ from companies who can tax deduct them and then sets up hatchet websites to attack the people who suggest limitations to these companies, all the while the companies keep their hands clean and Rick Berman claims to just be airing his opinion. You can see some of the groups he fronts for here: http://bermanexposed.org or you can read about him in my expose of the worst people in health and fitness in 2010:
        https://youarenotafitperson.com/2010/12/31/the-dirty-dozen-of-2010/
        His son even denounced him calling him “evil,” a “human molestor,” an “exploiter,” a “scoundrel,” and “a world historical motherfucking son of a bitch.”
        As well, it doesn’t matter if your Goji berry contained all of the Zeaxanthin in the world. That is the Mumbo Jumbo level at which Lindsey Duncan works. What matters is the products effect on your health. Nothing has ever been shown to indicate that drinking Goji berry juice will help your health. That is the problem with Mumbo Jumbo. You get caught up in the scientific sounding talk and forget what we are dealing with. You don’t need these ridiculous super foods to be healthy.

      • April 24, 2013 7:26 am

        You missed the purpose of my quote… it wasn’t about the website nor the PhD who made the accusations… simply because that was one in a multitude of websites and people who had issues with CSPI. The purpose of my quote was to show that everybody has an opinion and every organization differs in their opinions with another organization. So to come at me with CSPI says this and that was just not effective in making an argument.

        My point is this. If you add a food that is dense with nutrition, how can you argue that it is not nutritious and doesn’t benefit you and how can you argue that it is not better than the food American consumes on a daily basis? You can’t and to do so here is ignorant. Genesis PURE products are great for you and there is no argument no matter how you try to gussy it up with articles from less than ethical sources.

  25. April 23, 2013 6:46 pm

    And every web site of value and paper put forth with any salt will tell you that the Goji berry is the most nutrient dense fruit on the planet.

  26. Dr Truth permalink
    April 23, 2013 7:56 pm

    What is upsetting Mark is people like you that deceive and cheat people with false hope as you steal their money promoting vitamins and FRUIT JUICE for $40 a bottle… That is Lindsey Duncan’s modus operandi and it is why he bankrupted his last nutrition company and will do it again with Genesis Pure… it is not if but when the house of cards come crashing down. Speak with any sales distributor of 4Health, Inc his last bankrupt nutrition company if you are so fond of research.
    ALL reputable medical professionals LAUGH at these absurd claims… ever heard of American Heart Assn, AMA, FDA? No, I guess they are biased too… Because you are from Dallas metro, a couple (biased lol) medical professionals in your area.
    Oncologist David Euhus at UT Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas says, “I do bristle at all the claims that i see with all of these products. Dr. Euhus says a balanced diet is the key to good health. Exercise and a good diet is what he stresses to his patients. “None of these (super-fruits) have proven to have any efficacy in well done clincial trials.” Dr. Euhus says the studies that you read on the internet are biased independent studies conducted by the makers of the products containing the super-fruits. He says they are not “peer-reviewed.”
    “A lot of times when we translate mouse data to humans, it just doesn’t work.” Dr. Euhus says these early studies and findings are now misleading consumers…particularly those searching the internet looking for answer and cures. No matter where you’re searching, on the internet or in the grocery store, you’re likely also seeing claims that these new tropical fruits can improve your health. Not true.
    “Today if you looked up a google search for superfoods, you’d find three- million hits and the first two-million of those would be from folks that make super-foods,” says Cardiologist Tony Das at Texas Health Presbyterian in Dallas.
    Dr. Das says there is no proof these fruits are any more heart healthy than our old favorites like blueberries, apples and bananas. He says the “oldies” have their benefits as well and the claims regarding the new fruits have been taken out of context. “These aren’t magic foods. Calling them super foods is a stretch.” Dr. Das, Zerner, and Dr. Euhus also say the term itself is made up. Allen asked Das, “So the science and medical world do not recognize ‘super-food’ or ‘super-fruit?’” “That’s correct,” says Dr. Euhus.

    • April 24, 2013 7:44 am

      What is upsetting Mark is people like you that deceive and cheat people with false hope as you steal their money promoting vitamins and FRUIT JUICE for $40 a bottle…

      LOL ridiculous. You must have quit or something and now you are anti-MLM.

      I am with a company I believe in and a founder/formulator I have met and know his heart. My friend from high school showed me this company over 5 months ago. My friend didn’t deceive and cheat me… I know the price of the product is high… most people coming in know that. We know that in order for a good compensation plan and a promise of a successful financial future, we have to buy into the idea that the products are more expensive… that’s how many people get paid… that’s no secret. But we don’t get into the company or subscribe to the philosophy of cleanse balance build because we are thinking, “man these products are cheap!!!”

      And I find it amusing your opinions and your medical experts’ opinions that these products don’t work. We have 1000’s of medical professionals in the business who will tell you differently. I am one of them, but we have many more who are more educated than I. And to use the AHA, AMA, etc… as your source of information? Laughable. To not realize that they have a financial agenda and that they are in cahoots with big business pharmacies and drug manufacturers shows where your ignorance stems from. Do you really believe that Diabetes organizations of the world care about Diabetes? That the Cancer organizations care about cancer? That the Alzheimer’s organizations care about Alzheimer’s? There are people that work for and volunteer for these organizations that care, but not the one’s who run and make the money.

      And your idea of false hope? Laughable at best! As an RN Home health Hospice Director of Nursing, I work 52 plus hours a week. My wife works 20 + hours/week in the Church as a children’s ministry coordinator. Our first week with this company working part time 1-2 hours that week, we received a weekly check of 420.00, the next week 700 something, our 3rd week 1000.63. Now our weekly income from the company as Gold Directors averages around 700 – 1000 / week and is gradually increasing as more and more people in Texas, Alaska, and New Mexico… all on our team, are seeing this for the first time. Brand new company… foundation stage… where all the money is made is right now. And we tell people that in our presentation.

      So your idea of false hope only applies to people who quit, don’t sustain, and are negative from the start… like you.

      We actually had a horrible 2 weeks with this company where our weekly pay check was below 200.00 a few months ago. And we felt like quitting. Almost did. Luckily for us, Jeremy Fouts said that those who have success in Network Marketing are those who go through the same downs that we are going through but don’t stop. So we didn’t stop, and here we are today.

      So, until you are successful financially and/or have become educated enough to debate Dr. Lindsey Duncan and his background and heart… I would recommend laying down your pocket knife and walk away from this tank.

    • April 24, 2013 7:54 am

      And here is a copy of our third week compensation… I quoted the above amount by memory so I was a little off. It wasn’t 1000.63, it was 1065.11. I blacked out personal references that you don’t need to know. http://www.screencast.com/t/g6ts4OQw

  27. Dakota R. permalink
    May 30, 2013 1:11 am

    Just wanted to say I signed up for Genesis Pure on Tuesday through a friend. I listened to the rookie conference call for an hour and a half earlier today and was given an abundance of information on how to proceed in building my business up. I have full faith in the legitimacy of this line of products in addition to the monetary compensation it can potentionally provide. Those who call it a scam are simply uninformed or ignorant.

    Mark, I’d be interested in speaking with you if you could make the time available. I’m still new so I’m taking advantage of any resources I can find in order to soak up tidbits. I’m also in Texas and I’m only 21 years old. I’ve always been into fitness so this product line plus the obviously lucrative potential of the MLM is alluring. If you care to talk please let me know! Thank you sir.

    • May 30, 2013 8:03 pm

      Hey brother… in just 5 months we have hit Platinum Director and have been averaging 700 – 1000 per week over the past 2 months. So anybody who thinks it is a scam is probably just a quitter, and anybody who says superfruit is not good for you and calls it snake oil, is calling Reggie Bush and Tony Dorsett a liar as well… and some of the best Martial Artists the world has ever seen who now support our products. These products are the best of the best and Dr. Lindsey Duncan is a phenomenon. Find me on Facebook and I would love to communicate with you… we are in Rockwall and this city is the next Hays Kansas.

      • RES transplant permalink
        September 10, 2013 4:06 pm

        I just agreed to join Genesis Pure with my son and grandson. I cannot take the products because I have just had a kidney transplant, but my wife is in need of the products, if it does everything it claims we will start very seriously and actively working the program.

    • May 30, 2013 8:04 pm

      find my contact info at http://pureintent.info

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      June 30, 2013 11:43 pm

      Sorry to hear about your sign up. Hope you got in early enough to get out with some money. I hear it hurts to be one of the later suckers to a MLM scheme. As well, we already have one shill for the company posting on here, so please don’t join in with M. Ketchum to say how miraculous these products are. I will have to ban one of you. Enjoy.

      • July 1, 2013 5:25 am

        ” I hear it hurts to be one of the later suckers to a MLM scheme.”

        Is that what you heard? LOL

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 2, 2013 1:30 pm

        Yep, according to USA today:

        critics say new salespeople can seldom sell enough to earn anything close to the money those higher in the companies do — the more senior people get a cut of the sales of everyone their recruits bring in.

        Even proponents of multilevel marketing say the cases and probes underscore one of the growing problems in the industry: It can be very difficult, if not impossible, for most individuals to make a lot of money through the direct sale of products to consumers. And big money is what recruiters often allude to in their pitches.

        And according to Wikipedia:

        In October 2010 it was reported that multilevel marketing companies were being investigated by a number of state attorneys general amid allegations that salespeople were primarily paid for recruiting and that more recent recruits cannot earn anything near what early entrants do.

        The biggest problem is quite simple though:

        “The problem so many have is their prices aren’t competitive in the real world,” says Lou Abbott, who works in multilevel marketing and owns the industry site MLM-TheWholeTruth.com.

        A 31-day supply of Amway’s Nutrilite Double X multivitamins is $75. Supplement retailer GNC’s most comparable product, Ultra Mega Green multivitamins, cost $40 for a 60-day supply.

        Roland Whitsell says the “direct selling” in multilevel marketing is needed in countries with “primitive distribution systems and limited choices in retail stores,” but its potential is “seriously limited” here. Apparently, MLM has been killed by the internet. Why buy overpriced products from a neighbour when you can get cheaper, better reviewed ones at your mall or online?

        “You’d be hard-pressed to find anyone making over $1.50 an hour,” Whitsell says of multilevel marketing. “The primary product is opportunity. The strongest, most powerful motivational force today is false hope.”

        Mark, as for your defense of the HOF football players endorsing your products, even AMWAY has those: Amway also recently signed former Super Bowl MVP Kurt Warner in an endorsement deal for its Nutrilite vitamin line. Everyone has a retired pro athlete they can hire. Just go to the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas, the place is lousy with them. I could list the millions of pro athletes that sold out for money, but all I really need to do is show you Tony Siragusa advertising Depends to get my point across.

      • July 3, 2013 9:01 am

        written by people who have never tried or have never succeeded in MLM. Apparent bias. I can show you numerous people, just like me, who started with GP less than a year ago and are now making 500,000 / year plus. Sure, I have only been in for 5 months, but we are right now on track for 60,000 this year working only part time… nice supplement to my income. And I have the same compensation plan that Jeremy Fouts has… I get paid the same as he does… he gets none of my commissions… so that statement that the top people get successful because they take those below them’s money… is false. In that case, the people above Jeremy Fouts… and there are numerous would keep him from becoming successful. In fact, he passed everybody above him in income because he did not listen to people like you and USA Today. Nice research again, buddy.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 3, 2013 12:37 pm

        So there is no downstream component to your MLM? That doesn’t even sound like multi-level marketing…
        In any case, your logic is circular. If only people who succeeded at MLM’s were to be able to comment on them without being biased, then we would only hear from the few at the top who succeed. No one denies that a few people make a lot of money with MLM’s. If we don’t hear from the losers too, then we are being biased. MLM’s are essentially pyramid schemes. The thing is, for those on top to make a lot of money, eventually, the vast majority, the whole bottom has to lose that money. Quite simply, that is the history of MLM’s. If there is no downstream to yours, no advantage to recruiting people, then it doesn’t sound like you have much of an MLM… which is odd. You are just a sales manager? You only get a percentage of what you yourself sell? There is NO compensation or percentage increase when you recruit new members?

      • July 4, 2013 8:07 am

        “So there is no downstream component to your MLM? That doesn’t even sound like multi-level marketing…”

        Of course there is a downline… and of course it is MLM… but even those below us can surpase us in income and in rank. We have 2 legs and if somebody I sponsored has 2 legs that do better than my other leg… that person can pass me. I will have one great leg (the leg that the person who passes me is in) and a leg that I still need to work on… my weaker leg.

        “In any case, your logic is circular. If only people who succeeded at MLM’s were to be able to comment on them without being biased, then we would only hear from the few at the top who succeed. No one denies that a few people make a lot of money with MLM’s. If we don’t hear from the losers too, then we are being biased.”

        It’s like that in any business start up. There are those that don’t succeed and those that do. Of course you are going to hear from those that don’t succeed saying, “starting your own business doesn’t work”. Or you will hear from those who never even tried. It is plain and simple… it works… if it didn’t, nobody would be having success. Your logic is cut off at the pass.

        “MLM’s are essentially pyramid schemes.”

        They are not pyramid schemes… that is laughable… because it is shaped like a pyramid? LOL… so is my church, my former company, and the girl scouts… didn’t realize there were so many pyramid schemes out there.

        “The thing is, for those on top to make a lot of money, eventually, the vast majority, the whole bottom has to lose that money. Quite simply, that is the history of MLM’s. If there is no downstream to yours, no advantage to recruiting people, then it doesn’t sound like you have much of an MLM… which is odd. You are just a sales manager? You only get a percentage of what you yourself sell? There is NO compensation or percentage increase when you recruit new members?”

        I still don’t know where you get the idea that there is no downline and no recruitment… I did not say that in any of my posts… please re-read before ignorant posts. If you are referring to my statement that those above me get none of my commissions… you are manipulating my statement. My commissions are my commissions… yes they make money on my downline, but my commission does not suffer, nor do they take from it. I get paid 10% of my total global volume just as they do… to infinity.

  28. Myles Ikenberry permalink
    June 6, 2013 9:11 pm

    A shockingly insightful expose from a landscape artist who has struggled with obesity for most of his life but is now blogging with a link to his book about weight loss. I am just shocked at how scientific and rigorous your debunking of coffee bean efficacy has been. I can now go back to my diet coke and low-fat yogurt knowing that I will never be fooled by some so-called nutritionist with 28 years of clinical experience at one of the most prestigious holistic healing centers in the world. Now, thanks to you and your brilliant nutrition blog, I will know better than to use Lindsey Duncan’s natural food approach and those horrible green coffee beans, and instead I will continue to use ephedrine for weight loss and pharmaceutical drugs for all my health issues, then chemotherapy if I need that, and by-pass surgery for my heart. Thanks for your brilliant nutritional expertise, Mr. Vaughan. You are a shining example of a person with no undisclosed interests. And anyone with a clue about nutrition and modern medicine can immediately realize you know exactly what you are talking about. How much do you charge to mow a yard? How much is your weight loss book?

  29. Kelly Rebel permalink
    June 11, 2013 1:25 pm

    I spent two days trying to find clinical studies for his claims. Please send me some links to help support his findings that aren’t a testimonial.

    I also contacted one of my friends that went to UT for nutrition and off the top of the head he said.

    The cell water and probiotic are obvious scams. In the same way that isotonic drinks have no effect on the health of 99.999% of the individuals who drink them (even those who do moderate exercise).
    As for the Green Coffee Bean, it won’t boost your fat metabolism or help you lose weight as much as normal Coffee would. It’s the caffeine content of coffee that boosts your metabolism and Green Coffee Bean contains less caffeine than normal.
    There’s one study with 9 subjects that suggested Chlorogenic acids may reduce the absorption of glucose from the intestines. Assuming this is true, it’s still not equivalent to controlling your blood sugar levels. Also, the caffeine that is present would directly counteract this effect (caffeine causes blood sugar levels to rise).
    Likewise, when you’re exercising you’re already deriving most of your energy from fat already and exercising actually skews energy consumption towards using glucose, not fat.
    Black pepper extract (piperine), is a mild MAOA inhibitor and also inhibits a liver enzyme that breaks down foreign substances. I’ve not been able to find any information that would suggest Chlorogenic acids are broken down by either of the two, or that they are made more bioavailable by piperine. Although it’s doubtful these enzymes being inhibited would cause any damage to most individuals, there is potential for damage in combination with certain substances. The point I’m trying to make here, is that piperine doesn’t contribute to healthy functioning of the liver. Most of the time it has no effect and when it does it’s usually a negative one unless you have a specific chemical in mind that would benefit…
    For example, Piperine does increase the bioavailability of curcumin which is thought to have anticancer effects (this requires more research). It seems that the company are intentionally misrepresenting this action to apply to chemicals in general, to claim their product has added benefits that aren’t there.
    Lastly, most antioxidants are actually pro-oxidants as well. The body’s own anti-oxidant glutathione actually has a few mild anti-oxidant effect in comparison to most anti-oxidants. The reason the body uses it, is because it bonds to itself to avoid the pro-oxidant effects it would otherwise have. Not to mention that the body has many chemical pathways that mediate this behaviour. Simply, many anti-oxidants can actually contribute towards oxidation. Claiming a substance is an anti-oxidant and that is has good effect son the body is a lie, without robust studies showing both the positive and negative effects, bearing in mind what it is you want to achieve.

    I just got this e-mail from him.

    he graduated last year with
    Bachelor of Science in Nutrition from UT Austin.

    • June 12, 2013 6:24 am

      Give me a break Kelly… you can’t have your cake and eat it too!

      You first say that there are no clinical trials, and then you start saying you have a friend who went to college for nutrition who is making claims that this stuff doesn’t work. Your friend’s opinion is in no way to compare with Dr. Lindsey Duncan’s opinion.

      Well we have a nutritionist who says it does. And I will take Dr. Lindsey Duncan’s clinical studies over a UT student who studied nutrition any day.

      You also stated that caffeine causes blood sugar to rise… maybe… but that trial only showed that it causes mild insulin resistance in some, while other studies have shown that people without diabetes have a less likely chance of getting diabetes when drinking caffeine. Nice of you to only throw in the study that meets your need here.

      Here is what I will say to your friend’s email. I am glad he has an opinion on this subject… but with only a Bachelor’s degree in nutrition, he obviously has not spent much time in the area of nutrition. Meanwhile, Dr. Lindsey Duncan has spent all of his adult life in nutrition. He is heralded by physicians as the Indiana Jones of the Health Food Movement. Dr. Gerald Bresnahan, M.D., FACC a world renowned cardiologist who is on the medical advisory board.

      “Genesis PURE is a company that fulfills all three of my passions in life: disease prevention, helping underprivileged children, and saving the environment. I am excited to be a part of a group that provides effective, natural, and unique products and has leadership with an impeccable reputation.”

      Now I am sure he gets paid well from Genesis PURE, but if you take the time to read his bio, he actually, truly supports the products and Dr. Lindsey Duncan’s vision for better health.

      tell your friend he should take the time and travel on down to Austin Texas to Dr. Lindsey Duncan’s clinic and advance his degree and area of knowledge by studying with the best.

      Kind of like saying, “my friend who just graduated with his RN license says that Dr. Oz is wrong about his view on cardiology”. Yeah… I think I will listen to the experts instead of the opinions.

      • Kelly Rebel permalink
        June 12, 2013 6:34 am

        I still just want links to clinical trials…multiple

      • June 12, 2013 4:19 pm

        And I want links to your friend’s studies and or clinical trials that led him to determine that cell water and probiotics don’t work. If you are going to make such biased claims, back them up.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        June 12, 2013 10:43 pm

        Seriously Mark… please… your constant responses of ‘I want proof that what my con artist company leader sells isn’t pure scam’ is getting very, very old!! The water is a cold hard scam and even the most senseless idiot sees that. Stop defending the scams… no one believes you.

      • June 13, 2013 9:47 pm

        “Stop defending the scams… no one believes you.”

        I’m not asking that anybody believes me… but there are plenty of reputable people in the world who believe Dr. Lindsey Duncan… and we have the company, business plan, and growth to prove it… I’m a smart guy… and I don’t believe I was scammed. I just know which medications I once took and am no longer taking and I know plenty of like stories.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        June 12, 2013 10:48 pm

        Mr. Duncan is a scammer plain and simple. It is disgusting to watch you defend him like this so you can protect your pitch… You are clearly bright but your defense is either, I believe Mr. Duncan so what you say doesn’t matter, or produce more proof that he is running a scam… I think his guilt has been clearly proven here. It isn’t surprising that the only people not convinced have a financial interest in his integrity…

    • Myles Ikenberry permalink
      June 12, 2013 10:42 pm

      Kelly, a bachelor’s degree in Nutrition is a good start, but very far from making your friend an expert. You’re better off talking with him than taking nutrition advice from a landscape architect, but not by much. Your friend criticized green coffee beans without actually taking a look at the literature for himself – a strong indication that he was probably not at the top of his class.

      As MK rightfully pointed out, your friend’s opinions do not hold weight against scientists and doctors who have decades of experience and proven methodologies. MK is also right to point out that you are demanding peer-reviewed articles for claims you don’t believe, and at the same time making assertions of your own without any attempt to justify your claims using the criteria you demand from others.

      “The cell water and probiotic are obvious scams.”

      I am not going to explain the biological functions of each herb, root, and enzyme in detail on this forum comment section. There are plenty of scientific articles out there, and books, if you have the patience and intelligence to dig through them. Or you can take advice from Dr. Lindsey or someone else qualified to speak on the subject… but the first thing you should do is stop taking nutrition advice from the blog of a landscape architect trying to sell you his weight-loss book.

      As for probiotics, go look up the GAPS diet, or check out bodyecology, or go read some peer-reviewed journal articles from google scholar like one of these:

      http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2009.112/full

      “These findings indicate that calorie restriction and physical activity have an impact on gut microbiota composition related to body weight loss, which also seem to be influenced by the individual’s microbiota.”

      http://journals.lww.com/co-gastroenterology/Abstract/2010/01000/Obesity_and_the_human_microbiome.3.aspx

      “The gastrointestinal microbiota have been shown to impact insulin resistance, inflammation, and adiposity via interactions with epithelial and endocrine cells.

      Summary: Large-scale alterations of the gut microbiota and its microbiome (gene content) are associated with obesity and are responsive to weight loss. Gut microbes can impact host metabolism via signaling pathways in the gut, with effects on inflammation, insulin resistance, and deposition of energy in fat stores. Restoration of the gut microbiota to a healthy state may ameliorate the conditions associated with obesity and help maintain a healthy weight.”

      http://www.nature.com/nrendo/journal/v7/n11/full/nrendo.2011.126.html

      “A number of studies describe characteristic differences between the composition and/or activity of the gut microbiota of lean individuals and those with obesity. Although these data are controversial, they suggest that specific phyla, classes or species of bacteria, or bacterial metabolic activities could be beneficial or detrimental to patients with obesity. The gut microbiota is, therefore, a potential nutritional and pharmacological target in the management of obesity and obesity-related disorders.”

      And on and on and on….

      Please educate yourself before you tell anyone that probiotics “have no effect on the health of 99.999% of the individuals” who take them. If the task of becoming educated is beyond what you are capable of or willing to do, then simply stop posting your uneducated opinions as if they are insightful analyses.

      I expect your next post, and the next article from the landscaping blog/book writer, to be apologies to Dr. Lindsey for the ignorant comments that you have made about him and his supplements.

      As for green coffee beans, let’s finish this once and for all.

      http://jn.nutrition.org/content/138/12/2309.short

      “Chlorogenic acids (CGA) are cinnamic acid derivatives with biological effects mostly related to their antioxidant and antiinflammatory activities. Caffeoylquinic acids (CQA) and dicaffeoylquinic acids (diCQA) are the main CGA found in nature. Because green coffee is a major source of CGA, it has been used for production of nutraceuticals. However, data on the bioavailability of CGA from green coffee in humans are inexistent… This study shows that the major CGA compounds present in green coffee are highly absorbed and metabolized in humans.”

      Let this sink in. There was no study before this to prove that these compounds were highly absorbed and metabolized in humans. Dr. Lindsey, with his extensive clinical experience and holistic healing research, knew what the study was going to say. Do you dispute that he was capable of knowing that the compounds were bioavailable based on his knowledge and experience? Do you expect him to refrain from healing people until after peer-reviewed journal articles have proven everything there is to know? Do you expect Dr. Lindsey to waste millions of dollars funding double-blind placebo controlled studies to prove what he already knows?

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3267522/

      “Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, linear dose, crossover study to evaluate the efficacy and safety of a green coffee bean extract in overweight subjects

      Results

      Significant reductions were observed in body weight (−8.04 ± 2.31 kg), body mass index (−2.92 ± 0.85 kg/m2), and percent body fat (−4.44% ± 2.00%), as well as a small decrease in heart rate (−2.56 ± 2.85 beats per minute), but with no significant changes to diet over the course of the study. Importantly, the decreases occurred when subjects were taking GCA. Body mass index for six subjects shifted from preobesity to the normal weight range (<25.00 kg/m2).

      Conclusion

      The results are consistent with human and animal studies and a meta-analysis of the efficacy of green coffee extract in weight loss. The results suggest that GCA may be an effective nutraceutical in reducing weight in preobese adults, and may be an inexpensive means of preventing obesity in overweight adults."

      Not only do green coffee beans aid in weight loss, they have other very interesting health benefits such as alleviating hypertension and having anti-tumor properties.

      http://www.nature.com/hr/journal/v28/n9/abs/hr200591a.html

      "A water-soluble green coffee bean extract (GCE) has been shown to be effective against hypertension in both spontaneously hypertensive rats and humans. This multicenter, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel group study evaluated the dose-response relationship of GCE in 117 male volunteers with mild hypertension."

      http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10641960600798655

      http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/bk-1994-0546.ch017

      And on and on and on….

      I am not a nutritionist but I am a PhD scientist and I am willing to tell you point blank that you and this landscape architect have no business giving people advice about nutrition and nutraceuticals. Please stop spreading misinformation under the guise of stopping the spread of misinformation. You both owe Dr. Lindsey a sincere apology.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        June 12, 2013 11:40 pm

        Myles,

        What is your connection to Lindsey Duncan? Have you studied with him? Sought healing from him? Is he a friend?

        For the record, I don’t doubt for a second the connection with gut microbiology and health and weight management. I think this will be one of the more exciting areas of future research on weight loss. Here is the issue though, why would I buy into Lindsey’s probiotic or even probiotics in supporting gut health? In fact, you even mention this outcome:

        “These findings indicate that calorie restriction and physical activity have an impact on gut microbiota composition related to body weight loss”

        Calorie restriction and physical activity, 2 things that have actually been shown,in research, to have a positive effect on weight loss. What has not been shown to have a positive effect is anything recommended by Lindsey Duncan. As soon as you can find a study that says, ‘The probiotic that Dr. Duncan recommends has an impact on gut microbiota composition related to body weight loss’, then that is something that supports your claims.

        You didn’t touch on the water… how is that not a scam?

        As well, Lindsey Duncan didn’t start recommending green coffee beans until a questionably small study came out, so why would you suggest he knew this for a long time and didn’t need studies to prove it. Are you suggesting that he just ‘knows’ what compounds have insanely small impacts on weight loss and science is totally unnecessary to him?

        You say you are a scientist, but you seem to think that studies following proper scientific methods are unnecessary? Is this what you are saying?

        There are many people in the world of nutriceuticals (I don’t even know how to spell the made up word for the made up industry), without studies to back up the combinations of treatments and cleanses that any one of them recommends, should we just believe them all? Why would I believe in Lindsey Duncans water over Dr. Oz Garcia’s water? https://youarenotafitperson.com/2010/09/26/healing-waters/ Are you suggesting we should believe all of the people in this industry, or only Lindsey Duncan?

        And I am sorry that you think that you have to be a nutritionist to be skeptical of weight loss con artists. I guess us regular folks can’t ask to see the science behind the claims. Your PhD is in philosophy, is it not? I have nothing but respect for a PhD as well as philosophy as an area of expertise, but why does that give you credentials to tell people what to believe, while everyone else has to shut up?

      • June 13, 2013 10:01 pm

        Dr. Lindsey Duncan is a good one to believe… if you are truly asking. And you don’t have to be a nutritionist to be skeptical of weight loss con artists… but you do have to know how to discern a con artist before you can be skeptical of one, and you have demonstrated here once again that you lack this discernment.

        Oh and here is a good read for oxygenated water…http://www.nanooxygenwater.com/resources/Clinical-Trial-Proposal.pdf

        If you can quit searching for articles that simply support your point of view for a second and really do some research.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        June 13, 2013 11:35 pm

        Mark, if this was a golf blog and you were telling people the wrong way to hold their putter, I would just not read your blog. But this is different, because nutrition and medicine affect people’s health and well-being. I do not have the time to teach you how to use the scientific method and thoroughly research subject matter. It is something learned by years of hard work and reflection. You are doing your readers a serious disservice by giving advice about this subject matter, which is clearly beyond your knowledge.

        Your response to my post was completely inadequate for a number of reasons:

        1) You would like to simply link me to Dr. Lindsey so that you can discredit me without actually addressing the points I make and the references I link. That is lazy and shameful. I have studied holistic nutrition healers for over a decade, including Dr. Bernard Jensen and many others. I was fermenting my own vegetables and eating a diet high in dark green vegetables to alkalize my body far before I ever heard of Lindsey Duncan. I approach his work with a deep appreciation for nutrition as the core of disease prevention. I evaluate his products with a knowledge I have developed from years of careful study and consideration.

        2) Your paragraph on probiotics is unscientific, illogical, and ignorant. First you say that you, “don’t doubt for a second the connection with gut microbiology and health and weight management,” then you go on to say that your requirement for accepting the usefulness of Dr. Lindsey’s probiotic is a study whose conclusion is that, “‘The probiotic that Dr. Duncan recommends has an impact on gut microbiota composition related to body weight loss.'”

        Your complete lack of scientific background and research ability is again obvious. You could have at least taken 30 minutes to briefly look at bodyecology or the gaps diet. Are you really saying that you don’t understand how putting microbiota into one’s digestive system can affect the microbiota of one’s digestive system? We could have a productive discussion about the debatable importance of coating the microbes in a layer of acid-resistant coating, the ratio of pro-biotics to pre-biotics in a capsule, the large number of supplements whose microbiota die before human consumption, or other aspects of probiotic formulation, but you are not even close to educated enough about this subject to have any kind of intelligent conversation about it.

        If a doctor tells me that vitamin D supplements are a good idea, that doesn’t mean that I need a peer-reviewed journal stating that brand x vitamin D supplements have been proven effective. It’s the same with bacterial cultures. A live cell of Lactobacillus Rhamnosus is going to be almost exactly the same whether you get it from Dr. Lindsey or somewhere else. Just like a vitamin, there will be minor variations in purity, etc., but requiring a separate study for every single formulation is ridiculous. Probiotics are very well established. You just need to take some time to read about them.

        Look at the way you selectively quoted from that study I linked. You cut the sentence in half to eliminate the statement that, “weight loss [seems to be] influenced by the individual’s microbiota.” And you didn’t even address the other studies, which were much more direct about the relationship between microbiota and weight loss. Everyone knows that diet and exercise affect weight loss. Far fewer people realize that they can make their goals easier by understanding the importance of microbiota. Again, your ‘insights’ are hurting people, not helping them achieve their health goals.

        3) As for cell water, I’m not sure what you don’t understand. Minerals are important for the human body. They affect almost everything. A liquid mineral supplement is possibly more bioavailable than a pill form supplement, that’s the only detail that you could possibly dispute. I am not interested in going over every single product Dr. Lindsey has ever released. You should either educate yourself or simply refrain from criticizing the products.

        4) You claim that, “Lindsey Duncan didn’t start recommending green coffee beans until a questionably small study came out.” You are so used to making unjustified claims that you just throw them out like pieces of candy at a parade. Do you have any idea when he first started recommending green coffee beans for weight loss or did you just make that up?

        5) You ask if I am, “suggesting that [Dr. Lindsey] just ‘knows’ what compounds have insanely small impacts on weight loss and science is totally unnecessary to him? You say you are a scientist, but you seem to think that studies following proper scientific methods are unnecessary?”

        I say I am a scientist… jeez. Let me explain how science works in combination with industry. First, a scientist develops a hypothesis (‘green coffee beans help people lose weight’ or, ‘Rhodium metal increases the rate of hydrogenation’). Next, he tests that hypothesis. If it works, the scientist has some choices to make. He could publish his findings in a peer-reviewed journal and further his reputation as a good academic researcher. Or, he could patent his technology if it is novel enough. The last option is that he could just keep the information proprietary, and use it in a private company.

        If Chevron Phillips recognizes that a particular combination of inexpensive metals has a superior hydrogenation catalytic ability than the expensive Rhodium metal, they are certainly not going to publish it in a peer-reviewed journal article. Especially if they cannot patent it. What they are going to do is build a hydrogenation plant and out-compete other companies using their proprietary information. Dr. Lindsey is perfectly capable of standing on his reputation and making recommendations without proving everything through peer-reviewed journal articles. If his products don’t work, he will lose money, in the same way that Chevron would lose money if they built a hydrogenation plant and their catalyst didn’t work.

        You could have at least acknowledged that green coffee beans do in fact work and that there is plenty of scientific evidence to that effect. Your complete avoidance of the articles I linked was… typical of how you approach nutrition advice that doesn’t fit with your personal opinions.

        6) Your disdain for nutrition-based healing is a red flag indicating your inadequate knowledge of human health and wellness. You say that, “nutriceuticals [is a] made up word for the made up industry.”

        A made up industry? Do you know who Hippocrates is? This is what Hippocrates said, thousands of years ago when he became the father of western medicine: “Let food be thy medicine, and medicine be thy food.”

        This industry was around long before pharmaceutical companies started pumping people full of anti-depressants, adhd meds, blood pressure meds, viagra, weight-loss drugs, etc.

        7) You ask if I am “suggesting we should believe all of the people in this [nutraceutical] industry, or only Lindsey Duncan??”

        You should not trust every single person involved with nutraceuticals, any more than you should blindly trust every single person and company selling pharmaceuticals, or cars. Neither should you discredit them all without investing the time to acquire the knowledge yourself which is necessary to confirm or refute your own biased opinions.
        The importance of reputation is another reason why I am encouraging you in the strongest terms to recognize your mistakes and apologize to Dr. Lindsey. There are plenty of people and companies out there selling nutraceuticals (and pharmaceuticals) that are inferior products. Lindsey Duncan is not one of those people. His products work, and they work because they have very high quality ingredients and are formulated by an honest, intelligent, well-educated naturopathic healer. Readers who follow your lead and heed your ill-informed advice will deprive themselves of opportunities to heal their bodies and enhance their health and wellness to prevent disease.

        8) You linked me to your article, “Healing waters” so let’s talk about it.

        First of all, I clicked your second link which you claimed was going to disprove the value of colonics. I was interested because I honestly don’t know anything about colonics and I wanted to read your source. The article it took me too was a very interesting webMD article which acknowledged the legitimate and scientifically sound approach to healing that is detoxification. It certainly did not say what you indicated. You might want to update that article and get your facts straight before you link it to anyone else who is paying attention.

        You state that you “have never found one reputable source that believes in overly acidic body being the root of many common diseases.”

        Blood pH is regulated in a very tight range, and even a slight deviation can destroy organs or be fatal. Other systems are regulated the same way. However, this is no reason to disregard the acidic/alkaline food theory of disease. If you were paying attention and doing your homework, you would have realized that the alkaline theory promotes EXACTLY the kind of diet that is known to promote healthy functioning of a human body. It is EXACTLY the diet which has been thoroughly documented by scientists to prevent heart disease and cancer.

        According to webMD,

        “The alkaline diet is basically healthy, says Marjorie Nolan, RD, an American Dietetic Association spokeswoman.
        “It’s a diet of fresh fruits and vegetables, plenty of water, avoiding processed foods, coffee, and alcohol, which are all recommendations for a generally healthy diet anyway,” Nolan says. “But our body regulates our pH between 7.35 and 7.45 no matter how we eat.”
        Potential Benefits
        Diets that include a lot of animal protein can lower urine pH and raise the risk for kidney stones. So eating a diet rich in vegetables, as with an alkaline diet, can raise urine pH and lower the risk for kidney stones, says John Asplin, MD, a kidney specialist who is a fellow of the American Society of Nephrology.
        Researchers have speculated that an alkaline diet might slow bone loss and muscle waste, increase growth hormone, make certain chronic diseases less likely, and ease low back pain. However, that hasn’t been proven.
        There is also no concrete evidence that an alkaline or vegetarian diet can prevent cancer. Some studies have shown that vegetarians have lower rates of cancer, particularly colon cancer, according to the American Cancer Society. But vegetarians often have other healthy habits, such as exercise and abstaining from drinking and smoking, so it is difficult to determine the effects of diet alone.
        “Clinical studies have proved without a doubt that people who eat more fresh fruits and vegetables and hydrate properly do have lower rates of cancer and other diseases,” Nolan tells WebMD, “but it probably has nothing to do with blood pH.””

        It is fair to say that some of these claims have not been proven. However, this doesn’t mean you are an expert who has proven they are untrue, either! You are so overzealous and overconfident that you give the illusion you are proving those ideas false, or that their advocates are being deceitful. You have proved nothing of the sort!

        10) You falsely attribute to me the idea that one must “be a nutritionist to be skeptical of weight loss con artists.”
        I did not say that. I am not a nutritionist, and yet here I am pointing out that your pseudo-scientific weight loss nutrition blog is rife with errors and unsound advice. I would not call you a con-artist but… OK, yes I would. You are conning people into believing that you are using the scientific method to expose unsound nutritional advice, but you are actually just giving your personal opinions and being completely unscientific. And selling your weight loss book which I am guessing is as unscientific and detrimental as your blog articles.

        11) Lastly you ask if my “PhD is in philosophy, is it not? …why does that give you credentials to tell people what to believe, while everyone else has to shut up?”

        It’s almost like everything you say just reinforces my point more. You did not even take the three minutes necessary to google my name and figure out what I have a PhD in before you wrote that response. Did you just guess? Was that just your personal opinion? Either you are incredibly lazy, or just completely lacking in resourcefulness and intelligence. My PhD is in chemical engineering.

        I don’t tell people what to believe, I make arguments and back them up with solid scientific reasoning, references, and logic. All of which are almost entirely lacking from your so-called nutritional weight loss blog. That is why I criticize you, and that is why no one should take nutritional advice from you. You should go back to square one and read some books on the subjects you want to criticize BEFORE you write your blog articles. And if you don’t want to spend the time doing that, just stop writing about stuff you don’t understand. Your bad advice is only going to hurt people, and lower their chances of realizing the healing power of the nutritional approach to disease prevention.

      • June 14, 2013 4:22 pm

        I was going to say exactly what Myles said, but he said it first 🙂

  30. Dakota R. permalink
    June 14, 2013 12:02 am

    I just want to chime in on Genesis Pure. It’s one of several companies that Duncan has created and it’s kept very low key compared to his others, and likely due to the MLM setup associated with it.

    As anybody knows, companies like Amco and even Mary Kay and Avon, etc all setup MLM divisions with the promise of lucrative payouts to their sales reps or “IBO’s” as Genesis Pure calls them. I fell into this scheme roughly 3 weeks ago when a friend of my girlfriend’s introduced us to the company. I spoke with a team leader who was very captivating and very persuasive. This thing sounded like a for sure money maker. Work hard, enjoy the product, and earn great money. I quickly realized, and I should have researched this before spending money on worthless products, that MLM schemes only make money for those on top. The ones who claim outrageous money are coincidentally also the ones who started with GP in January of 2009. Bruce, Jeremy Fouts, etc.

    Sure, it isn’t a tried and true pyramid scheme. There is a viable product line that is sold nationwide. Cool. Unfortunately, those on top only get richer off the expense of naive newcomers who are willing to listen in. They then teach you how to more or less bait your friends and family into spending their own money on products they may or may not use.

    I’m not into the whole alternative medicine craze or anything that Dr Oz or Lindsey Duncan spout off on. Some of the nonsense is actually ridiculous. I’ve been involved in health and fitness for several years, and without saying I know the whole spectrum (I certainly don’t) I can assure you that the BCAA and protein lines are not up to par. When you have hydrogenated oils and corn syrup solids in your powders or under dose the important aminos and overdose the unnecessary, you aren’t living up to the “reputation” Genesis Pure likes to embrace. The Goyin and various other Daily Build and Pure Health products are a SCAM. They are nothing more than fruit juices filled with vitamins and aminos that you can get for a fraction of the price OTC. The only thing that differentiates these products is the fancy wording that unfortunately convinces too many people, and the “super fruits” and berry/leaf extracts that you would find in Horny Goat Weed or Gingko Biloba. Both of which are contested at best on effectiveness.

    The bottom line is that these products are overpriced and have no “magic” formula that warrants these prices. The sports line which I am familiar with across the board, for example, is not what it’s cracked up to be. I will say that it isn’t the worst blend I’ve seen by any means, but it’s also far from the best. Reputable companies founded solely on bodybuilding (the sport I’m into) have developed far better products at a much better price.

    Needless to say, once I realized that nobody in my family nor my friends would gladly put up their own money for something that I can’t honestly tell them is “groundbreaking”, and that even if they did, I’d be a terrible family member and friend, I opted out of my Genesis Pure membership. Money down the drain with nothing to show for it but a lesson learned. I won’t be touching this stuff ever again.

    • June 14, 2013 4:08 pm

      Are you kidding me? Are you truly coming on here and spouting as “fact” that only those at the top make the money? Now that may be true for Amway and Mary Kay because they are well past their foundation stages and momentum stages and have hit their stability stage long long ago… but to say that Jeremy Fouts makes the big money because he came in 2009 is ridiculous. My sponsor and high school classmate came in at the end of 2010 and is a Blue Diamond making over 250,000.00 already… she also has people who she has sponsored who have passed her to Black Diamond who are making 500,000 + already. There is a lady, you can look her up on Genesis PURE who started in July of last year and made it to Blue Diamond in 6 months and Black Diamond in 8 and she is from a small town in Kansas. She only made 34000.00 / year prior to this company being shown to her in a presentation. The only difference between her and you, is that she saw opportunity to make a success financially for her and her family with her husband’s support, and you saw a reason to quit… well I guess we will see where you are in 6 months. Abby and I started back in December… 6 months ago and have already made 23,000.00 + with our 3rd month check being 1063.00. We saw the opportunity and the perfect storm of foundation stage, Lindsey Duncan, and Nutrition and ran with it… and here we are at Platinum Director in 5 – 6 months where the average income is 64,000.00 / year. And we are on track to hit the Executive levels in a few weeks.

      Jeremy Fouts is a beast… sure thing… but he worked hard to get where he is and he actually passed the person who sponsored him. So being on top is not where all the money is, because each person in the business is on top and whoever is above them has nothing to do with what they do with the business. Jeremy Fouts could have had 1000’s of people above him when he started and he would have had the same success… in fact your statement is illogical. Whoever is above me in no way determines what I do with this…they make money the same way I do and they can’t take any money away from me. Sure, they may always make more than I do, simply because I am in their downline… if I make 3 mil they make 5 mil, etc… but I can actually pass them if both of my legs do better than both of theirs.

      Actually your rant above sounds like you did no research and went off of fear. There is no way you did all the research required to determine that our products are lack luster… especially when we have NFL Hall of Famers who say differently and entire professional teams as well as the best martial artists in the world using our products. Maybe there are better body building formulas out there, but Genesis PURE is not touted as this… it is touted as nutrition for a better life.

  31. June 14, 2013 4:33 pm

    http://www.reggiebushprogram.com/reggieprogram/

    He spoke at our last event a few weeks ago. I guess the products don’t work that well, but Reggie just continued to use them during his NFL career because he is stupid.

  32. Lars permalink
    June 23, 2013 1:21 am

    I was just introduced to GP and am currently considering getting on board. I am a skeptical person, so I started a search that included words like “scam” and “fraud” and so forth. I understand where all partied are coming from. In my opinion, it is possible that Dr. Duncan is a con man. it is also possible that he knows what he is doing and these products could help me and people I know. I am glad I ran across this, because devils advocate is good to play. I am unsure if I will join or not. More searching will be done. Honest research will be done on both sides of this fence. I don’t pump sunshine. I don’t crap on parades either. I think all can recognize that the placebo effect is very real. At worst, believing in what you are taking (high price tag only makes someone believe more), is beneficial. I’m not a nutritional expert. I do know business, though. MLM Is effective, especially when the product is quality and of substance. A scam is a scam, regardless of the mechanism used to deliver it. MLm is easy for scammers, but that doesn’t mean that all MLM are scams. Again, I have no clue what I will find or if I will join the company. Stay tuned. Keep the argument intelligent and in line with what’s important. I am curious if there are peer reviews. I have plenty of Medical Doctor friends that I will speak to about this.

  33. Lars permalink
    June 23, 2013 1:25 am

    I’m sure there are grammatical errors all over. Son of an English teacher. Just isn’t important to me to spell check or expend the energy to focus enough to construct perfect grammar on a blog where intent is what’s important. peace!

  34. Fred Lunt permalink
    June 28, 2013 3:26 pm

    To me, proving he’s a scammer boils down to just one question: where did Duncan go to undergraduate school, and where did he get his doctorate? If it is true that he got his ‘Doctorate’ from a paper mill, he’s a scammer. Plain and simple.

    I’ve seen this crap so many times. MLM rah rah rah meetings with people holding huge checks, photos of people standing in front of expensive homes, boats or cars…greed does strange things to people.

    So again, Mr. Ketchum, what accredited school did Duncan attend to earn the title “Dr.”? If you can’t answer, you’re as big a fraud as Duncan.

  35. Fred Lunt permalink
    July 2, 2013 1:39 pm

    So Mr. Ketchum…Duncan claims to be a ‘Doctor’, but doesn’t seem to even have an undergraduate degree! SCAM ALERT! SCAM ALERT! “NUTRITIONIST TO PAST PRESIDENTS” What a load of bull hockey!

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      July 2, 2013 10:47 pm

      Fred, I am quoting Larry Tacker here, he did the research, but this much is clear. No undergraduate degree and a doctoral degree from a dis-reputable diploma mill…

      Dr. Lindsey Duncan might not just be unethical, he could be downright illegal. He (and his company, Genesis Today) appear to be in violation of Texas Penal Code 32.52 regarding the use of a Fraudulent, Substandard or Fictitious Degree to promote a business.
      “Dr.” Duncan claims his doctoral degree (he has no actual undergraduate degree) in “natural medicine” from Clayton College of Natural Health, a “distance learning” insitution that happens to appear on an official State of Texas website (the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board) under “Institutions Whose Degrees Are Illegal to Use in Texas, as determined by Texas Educational Code, Chapter 61, Section 61.302
      (http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/index.cfm?objectid=6941C34E-DF3E-4B42-288239D3FC3ACD29)
      How he gets away with that, I don’t know.

  36. Dakota R. permalink
    July 2, 2013 1:54 pm

    Just to clarify to the owner of this blog who was sorry to hear that I had signed up…

    I have already cancelled my membership. I got out with only a minimal fee assessed for signing up and before I ever even had product shipped to my house. Funnily enough, the guy that first got me into this is still hitting myself and others close to me up saying that students are now allowed to “sign up free” and that him, his mother, and others are already making very good checks after 3-4 weeks of GP. I find this statement utterly ridiculous.

    In the end, I was duped into believing that this was a way to good money. The thing is, even if it was, I would not endorse these products because they are overpriced, underdosed, and are completely obliterated by competitor products out there. Don’t even get me started on the superfruits or herbal juices they promote… stuff that is just essentially a money pit. But for their athletic wellness line, a product query of which I am very familiar with, I can firmly say they are bad quality. There are much, much better products out there to spend your money on that won’t even cost as much as Genesis Pure products do. And they don’t include corn syrup solids in their protein mixes…

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      July 2, 2013 10:21 pm

      Glad to hear you did your research. MLM’s are hard ways to make money, and really just pyramid schemes. If you are self motivated and smart, as it seems you are, look for opportunities to supply products to the marketplace that you do believe in. A lot of companies develop products in other countries and need distributors. That can be a very lucrative business, I know 2 people who distribute field hockey sticks in Vancouver, and they do quite well. A good friend of our families saw an ad in the newspaper to be a distributor of Foster Grant glasses. His family continued the business and the son has gone on to develop his own line of sunglasses that has been fantastically successful! http://ryderseyewear.com/OurStory
      The world is really full of opportunity these days. Find an area you believe in or have experience and keep your eyes open for products that need distribution or areas that require products, and all the best of luck!

  37. Robert permalink
    July 4, 2013 9:05 am

    I know a person who got into the Genesis Pure pyramid scheme at a very early stage and is now at the top of the Genesis Pure pyramid. Yes, she makes a lot of money (about $30k a month), but she makes it misleading people about their health. She tells geniunely sick people Genesis Pure products will cure them and instructs and trains new recruits into the pyramid on which diseases and health ailments GP “cures”. Like most members of the GP pyramid, she has never been to college and has no healthcare experience, background, or training. Her formal education consists of a high school diploma (as does Lindsey Duncan’s) but that doesn’t prevent her from “prescribing” various GP products to legimately and sometimes seriously ill individuals to “cure” them. She tells people things like cancer can only live in an acidic state and Genesis Pure puts the body in an akliene state. She tells people that their bodies are full of toxins from then enviornment that GP products will cleanse them of. She’ll use anecdotal testimonials to suggest GP products will treat, cure, or prevent a laundry list of diseases and health problems including cancer, heart disease, digestive problems, arthritis, obesity, you-name-it. Like the Mark Ketchum guy above, she is completely brainwashed and believes Lindsey Duncan is Jesus Christ reincarnated. That sounds like an exaggeration, but it is not. Genesis Pure IBOs worship Duncan like some kind of god and would defend Lindsey Duncan to the death. Like most MLMs, Genesis Pure resembles much more of a cult than a business. If my friend had to choose between saving the life of Lindsey Duncan or the life of her own child she would pick Lindsey Duncan because she believes Lindsey Duncan has been choosen by God to change the world and improve the health and save the lives of millions. It is all how new GP recruits are indoctrinated…..religion is a big part of the GP world…..she tells people GP will change the world forever and will fundamentally change the health of the entire globe. She tells people God brought them to GP to be a part of this health transformation and change their lives and the lives of others through this “company” (pyramid). They are given hundreds of live and videotaped “testimonials” of seriously sick people who were allegedly cured by Genesis Pure products. They are surrounded by other brainwashed people who tell them God brought them to GP to change the health of the world and to be part of a global health revolution. And of course they are told they are going to make a FORTUNE in the process….so yeah understandably lots of people fall into the trap. It doesn’t matter that what they are doing is illegal (claiming GP products cure illness and disease). It doesn’t matter that there isn’t, and has never been, one shred of scientific evidence to support any of the health claims made. It doesn’t matter it is illegal for Lindsey Duncan to call himself a Doctor (because he literally purchased his ficticious doctoral “degree” online). It doesn’t matter that there are mountains of legimate scientific evidence from actual legimate medical doctors proving none of these products work. None of that matters, they just block it out, because like any other cult, members of Genesis Pure are not operating on common sense.

    • July 4, 2013 2:34 pm

      “My family member got into the Genesis Pure at a very early stage and is a top money earner.”

      Cool!!!

      “Yes, she makes a lot of money (about $30k a month), and she makes it teaching people about their health. She tells genuinely sick people Genesis Pure products will give the body what the body needs to heal them and instructs and trains new recruits into the company on disease protocols.”

      True. GP products do not cure disease, but they do give the body what it needs to heal itself. Sweet!!!

      “Like most members of the GP pyramid, she has never been to college and has no healthcare experience, background, or training that would warp her mind to what the government and the healthcare system wants her to believe… that prescription medications are the answer. After all, heartburn is a Prilosec deficiency… LOL”

      Exactly… good point.

      “Her formal education consists of a high school diploma (as does Lindsey Duncan’s)”

      All of our education background consists of a high school diploma… great that you pointed this out.

      “but that doesn’t prevent her from “prescribing” various GP products to legitimately and sometimes seriously ill individuals because she cares about them and knows that prescriptions are not the answer.”

      I like this woman! In fact I probably know this incredible woman!

      “She tells people things like cancer can only live in an acidic state and Genesis Pure puts the body in an alkaline state. She tells people that their bodies are full of toxins from the environment that GP products will cleanse them of. She’ll use testimonials to show GP products will give the body what it needs to help fight a laundry list of diseases and health problems including cancer, heart disease, digestive problems, arthritis, obesity, you-name-it.”

      Sweet!!

      “Like the Mark Ketchum guy above, she is understands that Dr. Lindsey Duncan is at the top of his profession. That sounds like an exaggeration, but it is not. Genesis Pure IBOs admire Duncan because of his expertise and knowledge and would defend Lindsey Duncan with their words.”

      Yes he is a great guy. There are some things he promotes that I can’t back up, but most of his products have worked for us.

      “Like most MLMs, Genesis Pure resembles much more of a way of life than a business. If my friend had to choose between saving the life of Lindsey Duncan or the life of her own child she would pick her child because she believes Lindsey Duncan is simply a man out to change the world and improve the health and save the lives of millions.”

      Good for her!!

      “It is all how new GP recruits come to love this incredible company…..faith is a big part of the GP world…..she tells people GP will change the world forever and will fundamentally change the health of the entire globe. She tells people God brought her to GP to be a part of this health transformation and it could change their lives and the lives of others through this “company”. They are given hundreds of live and videotaped “testimonials” of seriously sick people who helped themselves back to optimal health by using Genesis Pure products. They are surrounded by other wonderful people who tell them God brought them to GP to change the health of the world and to be part of a global health revolution. And of course they are told they could make a FORTUNE in the process but they would have to work hard just like she did….so yeah understandably lots of people get excited… especially those that do not fear hard work.. It doesn’t matter that what the health care system and the drug companies and the physicians are doing supporting big medicine because that is what drives the health care system. It doesn’t matter that there is 45000 clinical hours of research and study behind all of these products. It doesn’t matter it is illegal for doctors to take an oath to protect lives and then hand out prescriptions willy nilly. It doesn’t matter that there are mountains of legitimate scientific evidence from actual legitimate sources proving that nutrition is what the body needs to keep healthy and stay away from pharmaceuticals. None of that matters, they just block it out, because like any other intelligent, independent thinking human, members of Genesis Pure are not operating like sheep… they choose to be different.”

      Love this!!! Thanks for posting… however, in the future, I would check your spelling… I had to fix about 40 words that were misspelled before reposting. And if you want the world to think you have something intelligent to say, please have less to say and/or fix the spelling.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 4, 2013 2:42 pm

        Mr. Ketchum, you have obviously been drinking the cool aid.

      • July 4, 2013 9:03 pm

        Go-Yin… not cool aid 🙂

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 5, 2013 8:22 am

        Again, Mark. Where did ‘Doctor’ Duncan get his Doctorate? Where did he go to undergraduate school? He is a liar who cannot be trusted.

      • Dakota R. permalink
        July 6, 2013 10:20 am

        I’m still laughing out loud at the idea that Mark mistakenly answered for “Robert Crenshaw” and then tried to play it off like it was on purpose. That three absolutely any and all credibility he had out the window. It truly is hilarious watching him grasp at straws now.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 6, 2013 10:38 am

        It seems to me that people who are the loudest in proclaiming themselves Christians are the first at attempting to deceive. I’ve known some great Christians, and they tend to be gentle people who are very quiet about their beliefs. Thinking that God has any interest in making you rich, in my humble opinion, is vulgar.

      • July 6, 2013 3:50 pm

        I agree… and since there is nobody here proclaiming their Christianity… you have no point. You may have read that I am a Christian elsewhere, but there is no loud proclaiming here. Again, you grasp at straws to make a bias argument. You can’t win with the facts as they are, you have to invent false ones.

      • July 6, 2013 3:48 pm

        LOL… yes very funny LOL… straws… LOL

  38. Robert permalink
    July 4, 2013 9:24 am

    “We are Mark and Abby Ketchum from Rockwall, Texas. We have three adopted children born from a desire that God planted in our hearts while on a mission to an orphanage in central Mexico. We both work serving others… Mark as a hospice and home health Director of Nursing and Abby as the coordinator of volunteers in her local Church ministry…”

    I rest my case. The is from Mark Ketchum’s Genesis Pure website. GP is as much a religious cult as anything else. He goes on to describe how Genesis Pure products cured his diabetes and high blood pressure and how he has put his 3 children on Genesis Pure products and that it cured his one son of ADHD.

    Of course this is completely illegal. Genesis Pure products are not medications. They are supplements. It is against the law to say that Genesis Pure products treat, cure, or prevent disease. But Genesis Pure pyramid scheme members do not care about little things like the following the law or telling the truth. Why would they? After all, their leader is going around with a fake doctoral degree he purchased online and calls himself a doctor.

    I have witnessed it firsthand so many times I can’t even count….GP pyramid members like Mark here use his religion and other people’s faith and spirituality to enrich themselves financially. Go look at any GP member’s facebook page…it’s all about how God is bringing people together to get rich through Genesis Pure!….Oooops….I mean improve people’s health through Genesis Pure hehehe LOL! I wonder what Jesus would think about all of this. It’s disgusting.

    • Robert Crenshaw permalink
      July 4, 2013 8:53 pm

      I have been watching this website now and then and reading this blog. Now, while I don’t dabble in MLM or network marketing, I have never thought of them much as a cult; not any more than Apple would be a cult with those people in love with Steve Jobs. I have had friends do MLM, some did not do very well, and some did quite well. I have never heard those who did not do well, ridicule it as much as I have seen on here, however.

      I find it horrible the lies that pass for thought here in these comments. The only person who is really being honest here is Mark Ketchum. While I don’t believe the products do all that “Dr.” Lindsey Duncan says they do, there are obviously people who do, including him.

      I read his website that Robert above mentioned and I find that Robert is flat out lying about what that website says. Nowhere does Mark say that those products “cured” anything. He simply states his testimony; that he started on these products and here are his results; doesn’t mention that he is cured or that these products cured him or his son; simply stopped taking some medications that he was on.

      I believe him. Some of those products are high in nutrient content. A better consumption of nutrients can change lives. His teachers are the ones who wrote the letter to him; so the claim is from them without even knowing what was going on. Now you may choose not to believe that this even happened, but there is nothing illegal in anything he stated.

      Now here is the funny thing. I went to the website of genesis pure and watched 3 different “flip charts” and even watched Lindsey Duncan’s teaching reels. The absolutely go out of their way to state that “these products do not cure or heal any disease”. In fact they state this over and over again and it seems like it is part of their slogan. They go on to say that “these products give your body what it needs to heal itself.” They say it many times. The top money earners or leaders even state a couple of times when introducing the products that “Dr. Lindsey will tell you that these products to not heal or cure anything; they simply give your body what it needs to heal itself”. “We don’t have a magic fruit or magic pill here, we simply have a philosophy that if you give your body proper nutrition, you can live a healthier life and allow your body to fight disease naturally.”

      Nothing illegal there. Quite in your face honest. And I doubt that the guy who mentioned his family member who is making 30K / month is really telling the truth. As a top leader, if you start saying things that can get the company in trouble while the rest of the top leaders are saying the exact opposite; well you can guess that you would probably be in trouble.

      So quit being disingenuous just because you don’t like a specific type of company and you disagree with it. If you disagree, at least tell the truth and quit exaggerating facts to diminish others.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 4, 2013 11:09 pm

        Robert,

        For someone trying to seem unbiased, your comment sounds amazingly like you are a shill for the company.

        First and foremost, if you have been on any MLM site, you would realize that the comments there would make the criticisms here look like a tribute.

        I have never heard those who did not do well, ridicule it as much as I have seen on here, however.

        Second, you quickly come to the conclusion that

        I find it horrible the lies that pass for thought here in these comments. The only person who is really being honest here is Mark Ketchum.

        I actually don’t think anyone is lying here. Not Mr. Ketchum and not the many detractors. The only liars are possibly the people who aren’t disclosing their allegiances. I have no idea why you quickly come to the conclusion that Mr. Ketchum is the only one telling the truth…

        Third, you seem to know the lingo of the MLM business and use it quite readily, along with knowing what you should or shouldn’t do:

        As a top leader, if you start saying things that can get the company in trouble while the rest of the top leaders are saying the exact opposite; well you can guess that you would probably be in trouble.

        Finally, you did A LOT of research into Genesis Pure. For not having a real interest in this discussion, other than just a casual bystander, it is impressive…

        I have no problem with anyone coming on here and sharing their opinion. If you are a friend of Mr. Lindsey Duncan, feel free to share your thoughts, but tell us your relationship. If you have some financial investment in Genesis Pure, either personally or in your family, let us know. If you believe in the healing power of superfoods and you have researched alternate healing modalities, tell us the background you come from. If you have been involved in an MLM and quit, that is important information too. As well, if you have a competing product, that kind of disclosure is important. I don’t care what axe you may have to grind, or what benefit you are trying to achieve from posting here, just let us all know so we can weigh out your comments.

    • July 4, 2013 8:59 pm

      What? My website says nothing of cures. This is a lie designed to pass an agenda of hate. My website says exactly what happened. And the fact that you ridicule my faith and that the owner of this blog allows that without moderation, shows that you are bullies. Having faith in God actually shows strength, and your lack of strength is evidenced by your last comment. I hope people do see this blog and comment section… I hope they see what people do when they hate others.

      • July 4, 2013 9:01 pm

        Oh…and goodbye with your rants and lies… simply because you probably don’t have the warm market to build a network. People have to actually like you and want to follow you for you to be successful in network marketing. If you don’t have that, you become commenters on a blog that disses MLM.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 4, 2013 10:56 pm

        Mark, whatever your beliefs, nobody here has ridiculed them nor written anything close to hate speech. Please keep the discussion civilized. He says that he believes Genesis Pure uses peoples religious affiliations to prey on them. He doesn’t ridicule anyone’s religion so far as I can see. I would not allow hate speech on this site, but I also won’t allow someone to suggest that because it is a discussion of religion, any mention of it is ridicule. You are the one suggesting that the commenter hates his family and himself, which is probably crosses the line of acceptable discourse, although I am betting Robert can handle it.
        This thread has broken out into an argument between pro-MLM members and anti-MLM non-members. I honestly am enjoying the discourse. I don’t have a dog in that fight, although I did once have a friend who got involved in a water purifier MLM. He hated it and it was a joke, a lot of people lost money. Everyone knows that there have been some terrible MLM’s in the past, that isn’t up for debate. I personally hate having to sell to friends so that would never work for me. I don’t even tell my friends about my book. If someone knows and wants a copy for themselves or a friend, I happily give them one, but I don’t want to sell to them. I guess I won’t know if this is one of the better MLM’s unless I know the full business model, and I am betting that is under an NDA with members.
        Recently, with the research involved with these comments, it has become clear that with the advent of the internet, MLM’s in general are working very much like early missions and the sales people like missionaries, getting into developing locations with poor digital and shipping infrastructures. This makes sense. As well, with this MLM in specific, it appears that it has gotten very popular with a christian portion of the population. This makes great sense when you realize how tight knit and social a religious community can be. This is not to say that it targets a group necessarily, but that once in a group it may spread effectively. Mr. Ketchum, can I ask you, in your personal opinion, is Lindsey Duncan’s faith important to your view of him as a man and a leader?
        In any case, whatever your feelings about MLM’s it is the products that concern me more than anything else. Trump has an MLM as well (I did a write up a few years back in my dirty dozen of 2010 post) and the products are so bad they make these look good. I don’t care about his MLM, I do care about the crap he is promoting (or selling his name to promote). My problem with MLM’s with respect to health products is that each seller of MLM product acts pretty much as an independent affiliate marketer and this frees them up to say things that wouldn’t be legal for a company to say. The MLM is left trying to reign in rogue sales people, if it is ethical, and that can be hard and a lot of damage can be done in the meantime.
        With respect to GenesisPure I care very much about the questionable supplements with the very lofty claims. I doubt that they are going to harm you, but I do think it is litigious to say, ‘Our product doesn’t heal you, it just gives you the nutrients to heal yourself’. It is a very weak end around on the very specific laws from the FDA. It is logically the same sentence. I will be reporting these claims to the FDA and the FTC and we will see where it goes.

      • July 5, 2013 6:15 am

        [quote] For someone trying to seem unbiased, your comment sounds amazingly like you are a shill for the company.[/quote]

        Wow, my point proven in the first sentence. If you have an opposite opinion of the detractors, you are a shill for the company.

        [quote] First and foremost, if you have been on any MLM site, you would realize that the comments there would make the criticisms here look like a tribute.[/quote]

        That is simply not true. I have and I do not find that the criticisms here look like a tribute.

        [quote] I actually don’t think anyone is lying here. The only liars are possibly the people who aren’t disclosing their allegiances. I have no idea why you quickly come to the conclusion that Mr. Ketchum is the only one telling the truth…[/quote]

        I explained it quite well. I even went back to re-read what I originally wrote, and I can see where I came to that conclusion. I am baffled that you cannot.

        [quote] Third, you seem to know the lingo of the MLM business and use it quite readily, along with knowing what you should or shouldn’t do:
        As a top leader, if you start saying things that can get the company in trouble while the rest of the top leaders are saying the exact opposite; well you can guess that you would probably be in trouble.[/quote]

        If you go to the Genesis Pure website, there is a link that states “leaders” and “top leaders”; that is where I watched the videos yesterday and got the “lingo”. I actually made my success in real estate but find the opposition to network marketing here laughable. And it is the same in any business. If you say things to the public that the company is evidently against, you could get into trouble. Pretty simple.

        [quote] Finally, you did A LOT of research into Genesis Pure. For not having a real interest in this discussion, other than just a casual bystander, it is impressive…[/quote]

        Actually, I never stated that I had no interest in the discussion; never stated “I have no real interest”. I said, “I have been watching this website now and then and reading this blog.”

        So either you come to conclusions awfully fast, or you are being disingenuous yourself as the blog owner. I actually took a great interest which is why I have been following it and finally made a comment. Often times, those who have not much to say, will either warp what the other person says in order to keep make a selfish point, or they will make stuff up completely. It is a common practice. You do it quite often in your rebuke of my comment.

        [quote] I have no problem with anyone coming on here and sharing their opinion. If you are a friend of Mr. Lindsey Duncan, feel free to share your thoughts, but tell us your relationship. If you have some financial investment in Genesis Pure, either personally or in your family, let us know. If you believe in the healing power of superfoods and you have researched alternate healing modalities, tell us the background you come from. If you have been involved in an MLM and quit, that is important information too. As well, if you have a competing product, that kind of disclosure is important. I don’t care what axe you may have to grind, or what benefit you are trying to achieve from posting here, just let us all know so we can weigh out your comments. [/quote]

        Here you do it again. You make it a point to let everybody know that you are “pondering” whether or not I am a friend of Lindsey Duncan or whether or not I have an investment in Genesis Pure. That is the only way possible somebody could be arguing with your conclusion that he is a fraud. Must be a friend or have a financial investment. This is again disingenuous.

        I have no opinion of superfood as I have not researched them. I actually am not arguing pro or anti products from Genesis Pure; I am arguing that I believe that nutrition helps body’s heal themselves. Whether or not the products here have any nutrition in them, I don’t know, I haven’t tried nor read about them. I assume (maybe falsely) that they probably do have nutrition in them or they wouldn’t be on the market or Lindsey Duncan wouldn’t be so popular in the news, with celebrities and sports figures.

        So I believe that you guys have been involved in MLM before and have failed numerous times. Which is why you are so anti-MLM. So tell me your relationship. If you have some financial loss with Genesis Pure, or either personally or in your family, let me know. If you believe that superfoods don’t have the nutrition your body needs to heal itself. If you have been involved in an MLM and quit, that is important information too. As well, if you were scammed by an MLM in the past and that is why you are so bitter about all MLM, that kind of disclosure is important. I don’t care what axe you may have to grind, or what benefit you are trying to achieve from posting here, just let me know so I can weigh out your comments.

        Disclaimer: before pushing “post” I actually typed in one of their superfruits and did some research on google. I looked for a site that you may give credence to such as WebMD. I did not want to give you another reason to tout “bias!!” WebMD actually states that the Acai berry is rich in nutrition that your body needs. It even states, and I quote, “Theoretically, the antioxidant activity of the acai berry may help prevent diseases caused by oxidative stress such as heart disease and cancer.”

        Boom.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 5, 2013 11:42 am

        Mark… I don’t even know what to say to this one. I really believed that Robert Crenshaw was a real person. True, I thought he was involved with Genesis Pure, but I did think he was real. Now to see that you are actually posting his rebuttal… Are you aware how foolish this looks now that we know you are Robert Crenshaw:

        [quote] For someone trying to seem unbiased, your comment sounds amazingly like you are a shill for the company.[/quote]

        Wow, my point proven in the first sentence. If you have an opposite opinion of the detractors, you are a shill for the company.

        It is clear now why you feel that you were the only one telling the truth though… The reason you appeared to be a shill by the way was your bizarrely one sided arguments, not your opinion itself. And it did turn out you were literally a shill for the company, a phantom shill.

        Fundamentally Mark, the problem with acai berry is the sentence you quoted: “Theoretically, the antioxidant activity of the acai berry may help prevent diseases caused by oxidative stress such as heart disease and cancer.”

        The problem has always been the Theoretically. Antioxidants slow down cellular damage. We know this. It has been shown. The problem has been that every study that has looked into increasing your intake of antioxidants has shown that increased consumption is linked to negative outcomes, including increased risk of cancer. Acai Berry has slightly more antioxidants than blueberries as well. I do recommend eating blueberries but I would NEVER recommend drinking blueberry juice. Eat your fruits, NEVER, EVER, EVER drink them. The true test of any ‘super’ product is found in epidemiology. There is a branch of research that involves finding groups of people that have a common result (got sick, lived a long time, lost weight, etc) and then find out what they all did and look for common items. It is so amazingly powerful and is the story of Dr. John Snow and cholera epidemics in London is amazing. In any case, why I mention this is that they do epidemiological studies on the elderly all the time looking for causes for longevity. No superfoods have ever been on this list. Social networks quite often are. Jobs that have a light physical labour without much sitting often are too. If there is even a slight but consistent benefit to anything, it shows up with these studies. The way Mr. Duncan talks about these products, it is as if they have a massive and significant benefit. This simply isn’t the case. Lindsey Duncan and scam artists like him work in the world of theoretical cures and don’t give a damn about actual.

    • Joe S. permalink
      July 19, 2013 3:35 pm

      I did a records search in Austin and surrounding counties and found a divorce record for Robert Lindsey Duncan and Cheryl Wheeler Duncan that was filed in December 2009 in Travis County, TX. Why would Dr. Lindsey Duncan and Cheryl Duncan lie about being married? This seems to be fraud to me. Genesis Pure was started in 2010, so it looks like they divorced right before the launch of the company. Maybe they are lying about the divorce to sell more products and recruit more Christians. That does not seem very Christian. This guy seems like a con artist to me.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 19, 2013 6:48 pm

        I wouldn’t normally approve a post about a person’s personal life, as I don’t see these things as germane to a discussion of fitness nor do I think a person’s character should be cause for questioning their claims. In my mind, the claims stand on their own, based upon their evidence. The things is, with the case of Lindsey Duncan, almost everyone who is supporting him is doing so NOT on the basis of the evidence of his products, because there is almost none, but actually on the basis of his character, which they say is good. I don’t go to the Genesis Pure sessions so I don’t know if this is the case, and I am sure many people out there can help with the info, but are they saying in public that they are married? I know there are references on the internet that they are married, well after 2009, including inerviews, so if they are claiming something that is untrue, and doing this out of greed or to portray themselves as pious to a specific market, then that would be pretty damning-fraudulent actually. That is to say, if the Robert Lindsey Duncan and Cheryl Wheeler Duncan that are listed as divorced, are actually divorced, (I haven’t done my own records search, so this may be untrue, or they may have remarried) yet claim to be married, what is going on? Joe, can you establish your claim that they are divorced? I would love to get to the bottom of this, because it is either totally irrelevant or massively damning. Do they publicly claim to be married in the first place? Lindsey, can you clear this up for us? How about you Cheryl? While you are at it, please clear up the ownership of Pure Health. In any case, until we know more, please don’t jump to any conclusions. If you do know more, please comment here.

      • Joe S. permalink
        July 19, 2013 8:39 pm

        My niece was being hit up by a friend to become an IBO with Genesis Pure and asked me to use my investigative skills to check out this Lindsey Duncan guy before she put down a bunch of money. If you want to verify the divorce record for Robert Lindsey Duncan and Cheryl Wheeler Duncan from December 2009, call the clerk’s office in Travis County, TX. If you want a copy, you can fill out a form online and they will send it to you. It is a public record.

  39. Robert permalink
    July 4, 2013 3:03 pm

    I am glad this exchange has been documented and will be available online forever. Anyone can read Mr. Ketchum’s words here and clearly see the lunancy at work within this particular MLM. Thankfully, at least some individuals considering joining Genesis Pure and doing online research will come across this website and see for themselves the looney-toon nature of its members before plunking down the $2,000.00 sign up fee.

    • July 4, 2013 5:55 pm

      Anybody familiar with MLM and Genesis Pure in particular will see right through this blow hard’s hatred of his own obvious failures. His hatred for his family member is evident by the way he talked about her here… It wouldn’t matter if she worked for Genesis Pure or was a teacher… He doesn’t like her.

      Also his ignorance of Genesis Pure is evidenced by his proclamation of a 2000.00 enrollment fee… Enrollment is only 39.95 and its free if you are a student or military. The 2000.00 he refers to is an option but not required. Lack of information destroys the mind…

  40. Dakota R. permalink
    July 5, 2013 8:41 am

    Um… Did anybody else just notice that Mark Ketchum replied to the blog owners rebuttal to “Robert Crenshaw” as if he were under the guise of former said name? Mark, it appears you mistakenly signed off as Mark instead of Robert. You quoted the blog owners statements and then addressed them as if you were Robert himself. So is this Robert basically an alternate alias that you just let slip up? Because I only see one post by Robert Crenshaw on this blog comment section and yet here you are replying FOR HIM. LOL.

    And also…

    “Whether or not the products here have any nutrition in them, I don’t know, I haven’t tried nor read about them.”

    Yet in “Robert Crenshaw’s” only post in this comment section…

    ” Some of those products are high in nutrient content.”

    So which is it??? LOL.

  41. Robert permalink
    July 5, 2013 11:49 am

    I noticed that as well, Dakota. It doesn’t surprise me that Mark Ketchum is posting under another indentity or some other Genesis Pure shill is falsely claiming to be an innocent observer. I am very familiar with GP and let’s just say honesty is definitely not a top priority at this company. It amazes how so many GP members who claim to be these devout Christians have no problem whatsoever being involved with a company that walks a razor thin line between legal and illegal, and jumping that moral hurdle to play loose with the facts when it comes to the company, the founder, and the products. We’ve seen that demonstrated here with Mr. Ketchum, but allow me to elaborate…..

    1. Genesis Pure IBOs market and sell the products as treating, curing, and preventing disease….plain and simple. There is no debating that. That is exactly how they are sold to people and that is exactly the message communicated to customers and potential new recruits into the pyramid. However, this is illegal. We have an FDA precisely for this reason….to prevent just any Joe Blow from calling himself a doctor and selling people fruit juice that cures cancer. So one way Genesis Pure IBOs are taught to get around the law is to say Genesis Pure products do not heal you, but rather they give your body what it needs to heal itself, which, as someone pointed out earlier, is a statement that would make Bill Clinton blush. The second way they are taught to get around the law is to use testimonials….lots and lots and lots of testimonials. It is illegal for Genesis Pure to claim its products cure disease, but it is not illegal for a Genesis Pure IBO to claim he took the products and it cured him of a disease (hence Mark’s claims that GP cured his high blood pressure and his son’s ADHD). Genesis Pure IBOs claim the products will cure and prevent disease and then use legal loopholes to say that’s not what their claiming. It’s dishonest, it’s immoral, and it’s unethical.

    2. Genesis Pure IBOs claim they have science to back up their health claims when they do not. There is even link on the Genesis Pure website titled “science”. However, when you click the link there is nothing but a single truly laughable study funded by a Genesis Pure distributor and performed by a Genesis Pure paid advisor. That’s it. Nothing about the alleged 45,000 hours of clinical research Mark Ketchum mentioned earlier. No medical journals. No medical articles. No testimonials from medical doctors or medical professionals. Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Yet, this doesn’t prevent Genesis Pure IBOs from claiming they have sound science to back up their health claims when they absolutely do not.

    3. Genesis Pure IBOs claim Lindsey Duncan a doctor when he is not. They also at least insinuate he is a medical doctor and allow others to believe he is a medical doctor. As we already covered, Lindsey Duncan is not a doctor of any kind….and he is CERTAINLY not a medical doctor. Duncan isn’t even a doctor by the very very very loose standards of “alternative medicine”. Duncan purchased his naturopathy doctoral “degree” online from a non-accredited internet diploma mill by the name “Clayon College”, which has been shut down and is now out of business. As others have pointed out, to use a fictitious degree to promote yourself or a business is illegal in most cases. So yet again we see this company having no problem with misleading people and breaking the law.

    4. Genesis Pure IBOs claim it is not a Pyramid when it is….or claim it is “different” than other MLMs when it is not. Like all pyramids, you make money in Genesis Pure by recruiting new members into the pyramid and helping existing members recruit new members. Those fortunate enough to get in early (such as my family and apparently Mr. Ketchum) make lots of money. They make money off the $2,000.00 sign up fee and the mandatory auto-shipments of $100 fruit juice swindled out of the poor bastards at the bottom of the pyramid who are left holding the bag when the whole thing inevitably collapses (as all pyramids do) That’s how all these good Christians make their money.

    I could go on, and on, and on, and on but I won’t because as I’ve mentioned my whole family is very involved in this company and very high up in the pyramid and frankly I don’t want to have to deal with all the B.S. when they hear I am not saying 100% positive things about Genesis Pure . That’s the other dirty litle secret of MLMs….they can and very often do tear apart families and hurt relationships and destroy friendships.

    • Fred Lunt permalink
      July 5, 2013 12:37 pm

      Very well said. I have a dear friend who is in a very delicate situation financially. Her husband left her for another woman and she recently lost her job as a teacher because of cutbacks. She’s also very religious.

      She is convinced that God sent her this opportunity, and no one can convince her otherwise. Despite the fact that her father was a medical doctor, she discounts and glosses over the fact that this scam artist uses the title of ‘Dr.’, though he appears to have no formal education whatsoever. I”m sure the meetings seem like religious revivals to her.

      She’s plunked down her 2K. despite the fact that all of her friends told her not to do so.

  42. July 5, 2013 7:10 pm

    Its funny that you think it was on accident. I did it to prove your bias against those that argue against you and then posted again as myself to show that I proved your ignorance. Good bye and see you at the top 🙂 Love you guys, you make MLM more fun because it separates the workers from the complainers. Bye 🙂

    • Robert permalink
      July 5, 2013 8:23 pm

      The only thing you proved is that top Genesis Pure IBOs are dishonest and readily willing to mislead people. I am sure you are very skilled at misleading people otherwise you wouldn’t be a top Genesis Pure IBO.

      The only thing funny is that you claim to be Christian. I guess in your world dishonesty is a Christian value….

      …..and apparently so is money lust

      Mark, and I mean this in all sincerity, there is more to life than making money. You will never see me “at the top” because I don’t equate making lots of money with being “at the top” of anything. I equate it with materialism and misplaced priorities. Genesis Pure talks a lot about “health and wealth”. But there is another guy who warns us strongly, over and over again, to stay away from efforts to attain wealth. His name is Jesus Christ.

      Mark I have seen personally the human investment GP takes and the insane number hours of work it requires to be a top money. My friend never sees her kids. Any free time she has is spent putting on GP meetings for her downline or traveling across state to attend GP meetings for her upline.She’s never home.

      Almost all GP IBOs have normal full time jobs. GP takes up all of the little bit of free time they have and then some. These moments with your kids in the evenings and on the weekends is all you have…and you’ll never get them back. You’re giving them all to Lindsey Duncan.For what? Money?

      I feel for you and all “top money earners” in GP. I really do. Because you’re all good people with good intentions who have been brainwashed and swindled by this fake Californian huckster. The fake doctor has you all believing you’re in business for yourself but you’re not in business for yourself, you’re in business for HIM. One day you’re going to realize that and look back and see that your priorities were seriously misplaced but by then it will be too late. Your kids will already be grown and there’s no going back. Yeah, you very well may be a millionaire but who cares? Do your kids want you to be a millionaire or do they just want to spend more time with their Dad? Does Jesus want you to be a millionaire? Do you think that’s what He thinks your priorities should be?

      Making a lot of money doesn’t put you “at the top” of anything. There’s more to life than money.

      • July 5, 2013 8:32 pm

        Oh I am not a top IBO… but thanks 🙂 I will be by the end of the year.

    • Larry Tacker permalink
      July 6, 2013 4:25 pm

      So Mark is someone who thinks it’s acceptable to be dishonest, if it’s just to prove a point. Or sell some vitamins.

      • July 6, 2013 5:35 pm

        No, Mark is somebody that has to use back doors to get a point across all of the shouting “foul”. Its like trying to explain that we did walk on the moon to somebody who insists that it is a scam.

  43. Robert permalink
    July 5, 2013 7:41 pm

    Victims of MLMs are often uneducated people in desperate situations who are not given full disclosure. That is just a fact. I have seen this time and time again with my own family and who they choose to target for recruitment into the GP pyramid and how they recruit them. It’s always someone in financial trouble who can least afford to lose the money and take such a risk, and who are never told the number of people who LOSE money in it.

    It is usually someone who has recently been laid off, or had trouble at work, or is in deep debt. I have seen Genesis Pure IBOs encourage recently laid off or bankrupt individuals to put the $2,000.00 fee on a 28% APR credit car or borrow it from friends or family. I have seen Genesis Pure IBOs offer to pay for the sign up fee FOR someone and then have the new recruit be indebted to the IBO and make payments to them. It’s sick. There’s no regulation whatsoever and that needs to change.

    Any other type of financial investment sold in the United States requires substantial licensing and regulation and federal/state oversight. MLMs have none. If I were to try to sell you a $2,000.00 investment into a company in the form of a stock purchase I would have to be licensed and educated as a stock broker, I would have to provide you a prospectus on the REALISTIC chance of a return on that investment, I would have to provide you a pile of disclosures detailing that you understand you could lose your entire principal, the entire transaction would be subject to federal and state audit and oversight, and so on and so forth.

    However, if I sell you a $2,000.00 investment into an MLM company I don’t have to be licensed or educated, I don’t have to show you how many people lose money in this investment, it is subject to no oversight, and I can tell you whatever load of B.S. I want to and it’s perfectly legal. I can tell you that you are guaranteed to become a millionaire on this $2k investment (if you work at it hard enough) and get away with it. In fact that’s precisely what most Genesis Pure and other MLM IBOs tell new recruits into the pyramid.

    Unfortunately, the MLM industry has a substantial lobby in Washington that effectively blocks any and all efforts to regulate them. Sadly, the tens of millions of people who have been defrauded and suckered out of their hard earned money by MLMs are usually too embarassed to speak up so this unregulated industry of con artists is allowed to continue. It’s sick.

    • July 5, 2013 7:50 pm

      It’s not an investment, ignoramus… they are buying product dollar for dollar… and nobody forces anybody to do anything. I bought 2000.00 worth of product and made the entire amount back my first month in the business. It was easy to do and did not require more that 1 – 2 hours of extra time a week on our part. So I got 2000.00 worth of free product and I am not a talented salesperson. I just shared what was shared with me and now I am working with a bunch of friends who I trust and we are building our future.

      Your comment is very laughable and ignorant.

      • Robert permalink
        July 5, 2013 8:40 pm

        Fair enough, but that was YOUR experience. Many others do not have such a positive experience. Many others lose their $2,000.00 and never make anything back. Potential recruits never hear anything BUT the good side of GP and they only hear stories of people who made boatloads of money in GP. They never hear anything of people who lost money in Genesis Pure

        And it certainly is an investment in the company – “IBO” stands for “Independent Business Owner”. You’re buying a distributorship to distribute GP products.

        And no, you don’t have to be a talented salesperson to be successful in an MLM because you recruit your friends and family into it. That is what pyramids depend on…exploiting your relationships with others so that no . People sign up out of feelings of obligation or guilt or akwardness or because they actually do believe in it because they respect their friend/family member/etc.

        As with all MLMs, Genesis Pure products suck and could never make it in a retail setting. If that awful tasting crap had to be sold in a retail store the company would fold in a month. You’ve never tasted something so horrible as Genesis Pure. You can’t hardly get it down your throat without throwing up all over yourself it tastes so bad. So yeah, Duncan knows it can’t be “sold” (via the traditional definition of selling) so that is why he choose the MLM structure. This way he doesn’t have to sell the product….he gets to sell the opportunity to make money. Doesn’t matter what the product is or how rancid it tastes.

      • July 5, 2013 9:12 pm

        You see… here is where you mislead people. 39.95 is the fee to become an IBO. It is free for military and student. So it is very cheap to buy your way into a business. It only takes 125.00 / month on autoship using product to be commission qualified and there are plenty of people in GP who have built successful downlines this way… of course eventually they buy the 2000.00 worth of product because they want to be in on the global revenue shares of the company as they are building. The people you are talking about… those that bought 2000.00 worth of product did not lose everything. They got 2000.00 worth of great product (I know… you dispute the goodness). Also, each and every IBO can return product for a refund within 30 days if unopened. There is no trickery here as you seem to want to convey.

        So if somebody sees a presentation… and they can see themselves being successful in this type of business… they have many different ways of getting in. They can simply enrol for 39.95 or free. They can buy as little product as they want and try the product and see if it works for them. They can buy more product up front… from 100.00 to 2000.00 to try and get the health results they are wanting and have product for samples for their presentations. They can even buy the big packages later on in their business as there is no time limit on the revenue share packages.

        I have been to too many presentations to count… and I have never seen anybody force anybody or even go out of their way to trick somebody into buying big packages if they are doubtful. I do know that we recommend the big packages for anybody looking to build it as a business fast, but I also know that nobody wants anybody to buy a 2000.00 package if they do not believe that person will be a big business builder. The commission on a 2000.00 package is not what we are after… we are after people who will start building businesses just like we are… not people who will regret buying a package after they have bought it… after all, these are our warm markets… our friends and family. We don’t find success with GP unless we help others find success. I cannot make my next rank with more ways to make money unless I help 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc… others reach their next rank.

        So do I want to sponsor guppies who are easily tricked? No… nobody does. I want to find business builders. I even tell people after our presentations, “if you want to build this as a business, get your position for 39.95… go home and pray and talk about what level you are comfortable coming in at… let us know.” If they want to commit right there, I don’t stop them… this is a business… but I encourage thought and never lie that this is easy. It takes work and we offer to work with them to build this.

        Love this company! It is so full of people who care about others and their success, while there are those, like you, who would rather put success down because you don’t understand it.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 6, 2013 8:35 am

        So Mark, you’ve now resorted to name calling. If you represent the Christian way of life, I’m opting out.

      • July 6, 2013 8:53 am

        No name calling. Ignoramus is an ignorant person. Ignorance means you don’t know anything about the subject matter being talked about. It would be like saying “you don’t know what you are talking about” in only one word. Nothing hostile meant by it… simply that you are ignorant here. But said in a loving way.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 6, 2013 10:11 am

        Sorry Mark…you do not understand the meaning of ‘ignoramus’. A person who is an ignoramus is ignorant about everything, not just the subject being talked about. A synonym for ignoramus is dunce. An ignoramus is utterly ignorant about EVERYTHING. It’s offensive and derogatory, but we’d expect nothing less from a ‘Christian’ shill.

      • July 6, 2013 3:47 pm

        I disagree with your definition and that is not how I was using it as I could not tell ignorance of everything… but only this subject matter. Context.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 6, 2013 3:54 pm

        You disagree about the definition of a word? Look it up! You were using it incorrectly! That was a very silly response. Oh…and please call me Dr. Lunt from now on.

      • July 6, 2013 5:34 pm

        OK Dr. Lunt, yes I disagree. I looked up the definition and it does not say ignorant of “everything”. That is your interpretation. It states, “ignorant or stupid person”. The operative word being “or” so I choose ignorant person. An ignorant person by definition from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant can be somebody ignorant of everything or a particular subject. I choose particular subject. Boom!

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 6, 2013 10:17 am

        And I am correcting you in a loving way.

        Now go away like you promised. The adults are talking.

      • July 6, 2013 3:48 pm

        Yes, you were quite loving… thanks… and I did leave… and now I am back. The adults… LOL

    • scottbelser@yahoo.com permalink
      December 3, 2013 9:05 am

      please stop your giving me a headache never have i heard someone so angry how can anyone verify your points who are you just someone like all the rest on this page with an
      opinion we all have them does not make us right

  44. July 5, 2013 8:34 pm

    And if I were trying to mislead you, I would have kept at it. I did it to make a point… and I did. Also, it doesn’t take much skill to mislead this crowd, I simply posted as somebody else for one comment… the incredible skill you give me is changing my posting name.

    • July 5, 2013 9:12 pm

      I forgot to mention….the amount of money you can earn is the other thing top Genesis Pure IBOs (since you are not one yet) really mislead people about. Y

      My friend is one of the Top IBOs in the company. She is currently making about $30k a month. BUT….she has only made that for the last 2 months. A more accurate picture is what she has made over the last full year which is approximately $100,000.

      BUT this is GROSS income. Let’s do the math and see what the net (true) income is….

      $100,000 gross annual 1099 income
      -$10,000 required product purchases
      -$10,000 travel expenses to attend meetings
      – $5,000 daycare expenses, supplies, website, internet, phone, etc.

      =$75,000 adjusted gross
      -$30,000 income tax
      =$45,000 net / 12 months = $3,750 average net monthly income

      $3,750 a month? Whoopty frickin’ do! Needless to say she hasn’t went out and bought her first yacht yet. And she’s one of the Top 5 IBOs in the whole damn company – out of thousands and thousands of IBOs.

      This is where Genesis Pure IBOs really really mislead people….they always quote their gross earnings from their highest month and make it seem like that’s what they’re making a month. Even Jeremey and Candice Fouts who are the top #1 money earners in the whole damn company don’t live in some $10 million mansion driving Bentleys. They don’t even live in a one million dollar home. They live in a $700k home in Frisco, TX. And that’s the best possible case scenario anyone has ever attained in the company?

      Yeah, you can make *some* but nothing like they lead you to believe. You can basically make extra spending cash if you’re willing to work 80-90 hours a week. There’s much better trade offs out there if you ask me.

      • July 5, 2013 10:01 pm

        Sorry, I may not be one of the top IBOs in the company, but I am high enough to know the compensation plan. And you are either misleading again, or you have a serious lack of knowledge of your friend and this subject matter

        Sorry, but at 30 K per month, your friend is not one of the top 5 IBOs in the company. There are many, many more black diamonds making way more than that. She is most likely a blue diamond, diamond, or ruby or emerald at that income. That puts her in the top 100 maybe because the company is still new. I personally know 8 who gross 300,000 to 3 million already.
        .
        —————$100,000 gross annual 1099 income

        sweet!!!

        —————-$10,000 required product purchases

        ??? if she is at the level she is at, she is only required to buy 125.00 per month to make her money. 125.00 x 12 = 1500.00 / year (if she chooses to do the high end at 250.00/month that would be 3000.00 per year but that is not required to make her team commissions and the rest of her residual commission.)

        ——————$10,000 travel expenses to attend meetings

        I go to each and every mandatory meeting and actually am sponsored by a blue diamond personally and I have spent less than 300.00 for travel to meetings in the 6 months we have been in the business. There are only 4 big meetings a year… and if you are speaking, your travel is taken care of… if you are not speaking, 10000.00 / year on travel expenses means you don’t know how to travel. You can do this at less than 2000.00 if you are a top leader.

        ——————-$5,000 daycare expenses, supplies, website, internet, phone, etc.

        LOL. This is ridiculous. She should already have internet… the website is free, supplied by Genesis Pure… and everybody uses Jeremy Fout’s thepurevision.com and/or Jared Burnett’s Pure Team Global websites for training. No purpose or need to have another website. I do not know of any top leader that uses their own website except for one other, and she is a millionaire. And trust me… we know them all. And I know that daycare doesn’t cost 5000.00 / year for working Genesis Pure. Most of the work is done in the home and we take our children everywhere… a 3 year old and twin 6 year olds. I’ll give you 500.00 on this one.

        =$96,000 adjusted gross

        with all of the deductions a business gets (supplies, travel, child care, etc…) and with the deductions she will get for being a single mom (I say that because spending 5000.00 in child care per year means she has no husband to watch the children) she will pay far less than 30,000 in income tax… more likely around 14,000 if she does it right (but that is just an estimate.

        -14,000 income tax

        =$82,000 net / 12 months = $6833.00 average net monthly income
        Pretty good for only being one of the top 100 IBOs in the company.

        This is where Genesis Pure IBOs really really mislead people….they always quote their gross earnings from their highest month and make it seem like that’s what they’re making a month. Even Jeremey and Candice Fouts who are the top #1 money earners in the whole damn company don’t live in some $10 million mansion driving Bentleys. They don’t even live in a one million dollar home. They live in a $700k home in Frisco, TX. And that’s the best possible case scenario anyone has ever attained in the company?

        This is where you mislead people again. If people are doing that they are wrong. But not one top leader does that. They all quote what they are currently making… in fact my sponsors quote their January, February, March, April, and May monthly income to show the crowd that the residual grows. They don’t mislead… I know them personally and know what kind of people they are. Jeremy Fouts tells us what he made his first year, his second year, his 3rd year, etc… The fact that they live in a 700 k home not only shows that the money is new because the company is new… it also shows that it is not all about the money for this couple. The Fouts are Crown Diamonds in the company, over 3 million this year in earnings, and yes that is the best possible case scenario anyone has ever attained in a company that is a little over 4 years old and still in the foundation stage. That is a pretty phenomenal case scenario that you attempt to belittle. LOL

        Yeah, you can make *some* but nothing like they lead you to believe. You can basically make extra spending cash if you’re willing to work 80-90 hours a week. There’s much better trade offs out there if you ask me.

        Now that is a ignorant statement if I ever heard one. You can make some but nothing like they lead you to believe? There is a girl from Hays Kansas that went from 34,000 / year working 2 jobs and in the worst health of her life… she broke all company records and went from that to black diamond… and she started in July of last year. She is on track to make over 1 million this year. “You can make some but nothing like they lead you to believe.” My sponsors told me that they made Blue Diamond in a little over 2 years. We signed on and are ahead of their pace. We hit Platinum Director in 5 months and it took them a year. Look at the leader boards and listen to the rank calls… there are people making high ranks every week and you say, “You can make some but nothing like they lead you to believe.” LOL Every person who makes that money proves you wrong.

        But last but not least. You are right. If you believe you won’t make any money in network marketing… you are right. But if you believe that you will… you are also right.

        I don’t know you, but I do not believe you to be a credible source on network marketing. I don’t believe you have ever committed to it, nor even tried it with a true commitment. So do the people reading this take your word for it? Or do they take…

        Paul Zane Pilzer (celebrated economist): http://www.paulzanepilzer.com/tntsept01p1-htm

        Robert Kiyosaki (author of Rich Dad Poor Dad): http://www.wynman.com/kiyos.html

        “One type of pyramid, the traditional type, has its base on the ground; the other type has its base in the air. It’s a pyramid that pulls you up instead of pushing you down. A network marketing business gives everyone access to what used to be the domain only of the rich.”

        Dave Ramsey (celebrated financial educator and author) : http://www.daveramsey.com/index.cfm?event=askdave/&intContentItemId=119103

        “No, they’re not scams. They have good parts and bad parts.” He goes on to explain the bad parts are the few who do scam but mostly the people getting in forget what they are getting into.

        Donald Trump: http://www.slideshare.net/BeautyAntiagingRO/r-kiyosaki-donald-trump-why-network-marketing

        Plenty of reasons here.

        Sir Richard Branson

        Warren Buffet

        http://blog.newmoneyblueprint.com/index.php/tag/warren-buffett/

        Yeah… I think I will take the advice and copy the blueprints these people have laid before us. You should stick to watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZiw15VgWoI

        Thanks,

  45. Robert permalink
    July 6, 2013 12:41 am

    My friend is super high up….and yes she most certainly is one of the Top IBOs in the company. I know the chick from Hays you’re talking about and my friend is above her. This is what she herself has told me. She tells anybody who will listen how much money she makes (another distasteful characteristic of GP cult members). But I also know she tells different people different things. Her story is always changing. When she’s holding a big meeting she tells people she will make well over a million dollars this year. When it’s just her and I talking, she says it’s more like $100k over the last year. So you never know…all you GenesisPURE people are so completely full of shit it’s hard to know what to believe.

    I’m just assuming she wouldn’t UNDER-claim how much she’s made so yeah I believe her when she said she’s made about $100,000 over the last 12 months. I’m sorry that doesn’t fit in with what you’ve been told. I’m also sorry you’ve never made enough money in your life to understand upper income tax brackets, but buddy, I assure you nobody in the top income brackets pay just $14,000 in taxes on $100k of 1099 income. You’ll just have to take my word for it. You may pay a 14% rate because you’re broke and you don’t make jack squat, but people making several hundred grand a year pay 35%-45%+ income tax on 1099 income they can’t write off….and as you so equisitely pointed out there are no expenses with a GP IBO so there’s nothing to write off. Uncle sam gets close to one-half of it.

    None of that matters anyway because who cares even if the 8 people you “personally” know are ALL millionaires? With my friend that makes a total of 9 people who got rich in GenesisPURE…..9 people out of THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of IBOs. Hell, there’s 3,000 IBOs in Hays, KS alone and the whole damn town only has a total population of 12,000 (amazing you GP zombies don’t see anything wrong with that) and that isn’t even the town my friend works from.

    So 9 people – all who got in 1-3 years ago at the TRUE foundation stage who made money out of tens of thousands that signed up. Yeah, that’s about right for an MLM. 99.999% people lose money in it……0.001% make money.

    We could go round and round about this all day but I know from experience there is no talking common sense to you GenesisPURE zombies. But as the blog owner pointed out to you earlier it is not a coincidence that only person here defending GenesisPURE and MLMs (i.e. you) has a financial motivation for doing so. Everyone else clearly sees Duncan is a scam artist, MLMs are a terrible idea for 99.999% of people, and there is absolutely zero scientific evidence to back up any of the health claims of GP products. I have no dog in this fight. I don’t make money either way. But not everybody involved at the top levels in this company thinks it’s the cat’s meow. I don’t give a crap if my frien is Black-Diamond-Ruby-Presidential-Crown-Queen-Ducan-Ball-Licker…….my experience has shown me this company sells overpriced terrible tasting fruit juice that claims to cure cancer and a tiny handful of people who claim to be Christians get rich doing it. Yay for you!

    Now do what you’ve been promising to do for two days now and go away. Go out there and bust your ass for my friend and Jeremey. LOL. They have big mortgage payments to make and are counting on you buddy! Go sign up yourself up some suckers.

    • July 6, 2013 8:50 am

      Nothing you just stated makes any sense. And you contradict yourself from earlier statements when you said people on top make all the money… now you recognize that the girl from Tulsa Oklahoma, whom you state is below your friend, has passed your friend because that girl is making well over 600,000 this year while your friend is only making 100,000. Now that I know who you are talking about (I won’t mention her name) I can call you out as a liar. Your friend makes well over 100,000.00 and it is a documented fact.

      To be a Black Diamond, you have to have 75,000 in sponsor tree volume per week at the minimum and that is the lowest rank of Black Diamond. That alone would make you 7500 for that week alone. Now if she isn’t hitting that volume, she isn’t a Black Diamond. Now if for some reason she sponsored that girl from Tulsa Oklahoma, that sponsor tree alone is enough… if for some odd reason, she is at Blue Diamond, she would have to have at least 8 star 300 legs and a lesser volume leg of 20,000… the leg she gets paid off of 10% of her lesser leg per week would pay her at least 2000.00 per week which would be around 8600 per month which would be 104,000 / year. And this is only if she is getting paid at the lower end of blue diamond and barely qualifying… which is nearly impossible at the Black Diamond ranks. The girl at black diamond above the Hays girl is a strong Black Diamond because of who her downline is.

      So your common sense is only common to you.

      And as far as income tax… we make well over 100,000.00 / year way before GP entered our lives and there are legal ways to pay lower income tax. You just have to have that mindset, which you obviously don’t.

      Keep on preaching your hate toward MLM but please try to at least be close in your estimates.

      • Robert permalink
        July 6, 2013 9:19 am

        I don’t “hate” MLMs. I think they are dishonest and unethical but I don’t “hate” them, or myself, or my friend as you suggest. The only one who seems to have a lot of hate here is you. The hate-filled, income tax cheating, name calling, dishonest “Christian”. LOL.

        Anyway I thought you were leaving? See you at the top! Remember?

      • July 6, 2013 3:44 pm

        You see… I tell you that there are legal ways of lowering your income tax and you resort to calling me “income tax cheating”. This is the same way you argue MLM… you exaggerate and make things fit your bias

      • Dakota R. permalink
        July 6, 2013 10:01 pm

        Mark,

        Why haven’t we heard back from Robert Crenshaw? Is it because you and him are one in the same? What type of point do you think you were making by answering “for him.” Who does that, and what does it “prove?”

        All you did was provide abnormal yet concrete proof that you were trying to dupe us with an alias…

        Why?…

      • July 7, 2013 9:55 am

        LOL… we already discussed and have determined that I am he.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 7, 2013 10:15 am

        Trying to deceive. Standard MLM behavior. You’ve been awfully busy with all of these posts this morning. When did you work in church time?

      • July 7, 2013 10:42 am

        10 – 11 CST… thanks for your concern.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 7, 2013 11:52 am

        If I wasn’t so busy with work I would never have let you guys team up on Mark Ketchum for so long. That Robert Crenshaw business is sad but a little bit hilarious – what’s not hilarious is that Ketchum’s exasperation is well justified. What is it, 5 v 1? Well, I would love to take over for him but I don’t have time. And I don’t have time to break down all your comments right now so I will just type what I have time for. You all pat yourselves on the back and talk as if you have proved that GP is a bad business but you have proved nothing. The blogger who runs this column never responded to my lengthy and detailed health discussion above. Any of you guys attacking Ketchum are welcome to step in for the landscaper and respond to me above. I doubt any of you have any real understanding of health and nutriceuticals.

        You call supporters of GP “shills” and yet you yourselves are endlessly spouting off empty rhetoric with no substance. You are functioning as shills for the pharmaceutical companies whether or not that is your intention. None of you have showed a price comparison demonstrating that GP products are overpriced. You make the claim with no proof and then congratulate yourself on your brilliant analysis. Not one even one of you gave us a remotely decent attempt at it. The only price comparison criticism was for Amway – do you understand that criticizing them is a straw-man-esque attack on us? Do you know what a straw-man argument is? None of you have taken the products yourselves and speak from personal experience, maybe Robert but… yeah. Ketchum has, and reports his experience that they worked for him, and yet all you can do is trash him for it. You can’t imagine that he could possibly be speaking the truth. And yet you call him the one whose mind is closed and view on the subject is out of touch with reality? Let’s see what makes more sense… hundreds of thousands of people who take the products are brainwashed and stupid and throwing their money away and giving false testimonies… or you guys who have never tried them are wrong…

        Robert is probably the most ridiculous of all of you. Before he came on here you were all spouting off about how the claims of regular people making great money are obvious lies. And he comes in and talks about how his friend has done very well for herself with just a high school education. So… you all take it as more proof that GP is a scam! You guys don’t even see your minds actively engaging in confirmation bias despite evidence to the contrary. If my friend was making great money and believed in her company, you better believe I would not talk trash and spout hateful denouncements without actual facts and knowledge. If Robert was legitimately mad, he would be talking about how the products don’t work, and no one ever really benefits from taking them. If that was true, the marketplace would work itself out and Robert’s friend would be making almost nothing. She would sell a membership, an initial shipment, and then people would just cancel. But… people don’t cancel – that’s why Robert’s friend is making a lot of money. What usually happens is that people are very skeptical, then they try the products, see their health issues improve, and thank the GP member for helping them.

        An exception is that weight-lifter in the team-up-on-Ketchum crew who canceled before he even took the products. And he even thanked the blog owner landscaper who peddles his ignorant nutritional advice as rigorous scientific debunking… again I implore you to just shut down your terrible blog and stop passing your ignorant personal opinions as facts.

        Some of you are making empty claims that the products are “overpriced and underpowered.” But then, if that was true, why would people keep buying the products!?!? The line I have heard from GP reps is that, “the business is for some people and the products are for everybody.” I price-checked some of the products myself and the products are either at great prices or they are unique in the marketplace. Prove me wrong – show me an Acai berry comparison using our Acai plus. Or a multivitamin comparison against another organic whole foods liquid multivitamin. There is nothing comparable to Go-Yin or the liquid cleanse or many others. GP prices are not just competitive, they’re low prices. If a person is on autoship they get basically their multivitamin for $40 a month plus shipping/handling/taxes. You cannot find an equal product at a lower price. Prove me wrong. The gauntlet is thrown down.

        And Robert, do you think it is GP’s fault that your friend is working a lot? Have you ever heard of investment bankers? My dad worked too much when I was a kid, should I blame whatever company he worked for? You appear to be just a hateful person blindly directing your anger toward an easy target. Address this point directly in your response – you cannot blame GP because some of its members make the same mistakes that employees of all other companies make. Your friend work hours have nothing to do with the GP company model. And it is not GP’s fault if someone quits their minimum wage dead-end job hoping to do well in a different company. It’s not a good idea and the GP presentation/business model does not require or even recommend that.

        I have seen many GP presentations – never ever does the person say that the money comes fast and easy or that people should can/should immediately look to this as their primary source of income. Humans will always make bad decisions, and out of a huge company there are bound to be some bad decisions, but the GP system is very clear and the leaders always emphasize that they did this part time and that part-time is all people need to invest. The emphasis of minimal time investment is in the presentation, as is the emphasis that revenues start slow.

        There are lots of bad MLM’s: that is the grain of truth in all you guys’ venomous ignorance. But GP is not a bad company, their products are good. I saw another health company at a hotel where there was a GP presentation one time. The company was called, “Zeal.” That is the kind of company that is completely worthy of scathing criticism. Compare their products to ours, seriously, take the time and do it instead of being lazy and just making empty claims like, “superfruits are an obvious scam.” I’m not going to link peer-reviewed journal articles about superfruits. I invested a lot of time in the health discussion above about green coffee beans and all I got was one BS response and then nothing….

        GP is legitimate – including its products and business model. 55% of the price goes to reps – very comparable to retail stores. No middlemen means GP prices do not have to be higher than retail stores. And while a GNC rep might sell you some brand new turbo-testosterone muscle explode formula that you may end up finding will damage your heart, GP won’t. GP products are healthy, even the sports line, all approved by all athletic committees and even olympics. The weightlifter wanted to trash our sports line because there is cheaper stuff out there. That’s true, there is. And it will make you more huge, but it won’t make you more healthy. GP sports line is for people who want to be healthy athletes. Power lifters are not a shining example of that paradigm. One thing though, that I would mention, is that hardcore lifters could greatly benefit from GP products even if the sports line is not hardcore enough for them. Heavy lifters can greatly benefit from cleansing their body of toxins, so the liquid cleanse, superfruits, cardio cleanse, etc. could reduce/repair some of the damage of those high protein/stimultant/testosterone diets. And mangosteen could help with inflammation.

        Yes, it is illegal to say that these products cure diseases. Same with any vitamins or health supplements that haven’t been proven effective in expensive million dollar trials. But guess what, some of those trials end up validating pharmaceuticals that don’t work. Or even that kill people.

        Our culture is full of these types of things – disclaimers and warning signs about how you shouldn’t use your hair dryer in the bathtub. It is true that people should not just buy GP products and stop taking the medicines from their doctors. That would be a terrible and very dangerous thing. It is also true that many people see their health improve to the point where they are able to stop taking pharmaceutical drugs at the advice of their doctor. It’s not a miracle, it’s just science you don’t understand because you don’t read books from holistic medicine practitioners. Go read the GAPS diet, that’s the one I’m into right now. It’s solid, just like GP. Western medicine and pharmaceutical companies do not have a monopoly on health knowledge. Look at the health of western society in general… the western science chauvinism you are all engaging in is laughable. The food based approach to health is thousands of years older than pharmaceutical drugs. It is not a mystery why GP products work. Organic whole-foods products that cleanse, balance, build. It’s pretty simple and it works.

        Attacking Ketchum because he is religious is only part of this discussion because you guys don’t hold yourselves to very high standards of integrity in your arguments. His adopting kids, to me, is a good sign that his heart is in the right place. I know people of every religion who are good in their hearts, and people of every religion who are jerks. Same with atheists. Adopting kids is a pretty good indicator of strong moral fiber. Robert Crenshaw aside, lol, I can understand why he did that even though it was silly, you guys were all attacking him and I was too busy to give him any support.

        Anyway, I don’t want any of you guys in GP. You can take Centrum and other synthetic garbage vitamins and I will be happy about it. But Ketchum, Robert’s friend, and those other people in your life do not deserve your toxic feedback and criticism. You are right to recommend that they do it part time and keep their other jobs. That is the only thing you are right about.

        Prove me wrong. Leave Ketchum alone. I am ultra-busy at work so if I take a while to respond again, do not confuse it with a lack of desire or ability to refute your empty attacks on GP. Speak facts: 1) do real price-comparisons to other retail products 2) stop denying that regular people can make plenty of money in GP 3) stop using the word pyramid scheme

        “I am often asked if Network Marketing is a Pyramid Scheme. My reply is that corporations really are pyramid schemes. A corporation has only one person at the top, generally the CEO, and everyone else below.” — Donald Trump

        “The beauty of Direct Selling is that it’s all done FOR YOU. All you need to do is find a reputable company that offers a product or service you believe in and can get passionate about.” – Warren Buffet

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 7, 2013 12:08 pm

        Hell, all I wanted to know is where Doctor Duncan got his undergraduate degree and from what school he received his doctorate. No one seems to want to answer. Using this title illegitimately says a lot about his character.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 7, 2013 1:01 pm

        Took me a few minutes but I found it: both of his degrees are from Clayton College of Natural Health, a controversial non-accredited school in holistic medicine. Probably not going to convince anyone from either side to change their opinion. Personally I have found plenty of evidence to suggest that pharmaceutical companies are very bit as dangerous as less respected medicines like holistic nutrition.

        http://www.realfarmacy.com/former-editor-of-the-new-england-journal-of-medicine-our-elected-officials-work-for-big-pharma/

        I like Dr. Lindsey Duncan and I believe that he is a knowledgeable and worthy of his title, even if his alma mater is not well-respected (by the mainstream medical community who I personally find inadequate and highly suspect). 28 years of clinical work with holistic nutrition is more than enough, in my humble opinion. I’ve seen health improve when people take his products, and I’ve read some of the clinical trials on stuff like Go-Yin. I think putting kids on ADHD meds is a major scam – Go Yin and stuff like this is much easier on the body, it’s just food. For that reason it is much less offensive to me. I take Go-Yin and I feel like it makes a significant difference for me personally. But then again I also like yoga.

      • Robert permalink
        July 7, 2013 1:40 pm

        Myles,
        The pass you give to MR. Lindsey Duncan lying about being a doctor defies comprehension and illustrates the brainwashing that takes place in GP.

        1. It’s not that Mr. Duncan’s “degree” is “not well respected in the medical community”. It’s that it is NOT REAL. It doesn’t EXIST. It’s FAKE! He doesn’t have a degree. What don’t you understand about that? He went online and purchased a fake degree that says he is a doctor, which in and of itself is NOT illegal….but it IS illegal to use that piece of paper to call himself a doctor and promote himself or a business WHICH IS PRECISELY WHAT HE IS DOING!!! How are you okay with this?

        2. Whether he is qualified of the fake credentials he purchased or not is beside the point and irrelevant. The fact that he is using a fake degree to call himself a doctor is what we are talking about. If he is so willing to mislead others about something as important as his education, then he would be willing to do so about the company’s products as well, which again is PRECISELY what he does.

        3. The extremely vaugue and highly subjective health “benefits” you and others experience from taking GP products can be discounted to the placebo effect. You believe in the products, you believe they are making you healthier, and therefore you “feel” healthier and better. However, put these same products in a certified scientific medical blind study and you will see they have about the same effect on your health as a sugar pill. This is PRECISELY why Mr. Lindsey Ducan refuses to subject his snake oils to TRUE scientific medical trials because he knows they will be proven to have not statistical benefit over placebo.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 7, 2013 2:24 pm

        Thank you Robert! I’m at a complete loss as to how he gets away calling himself a doctor, and it confuses me more that more people aren’t angry at this misrepresentation.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 7, 2013 2:38 pm

        I think it is silly that people think in terms of people having titles being beyond people without them. He doesn’t have an “MD” tag, so I don’t understand why you guys are so upset. People who get a PhD in English are also called, “Dr.”, do you guys realize that? I have probably 50 friends with PhD’s, it’s not a big deal for someone to have “Dr.” in their name, I think you are confusing Dr. with MD. Anyway, I don’t assume that people know what they are talking about even if they are MD’s. My wife is a nurse and constantly tells me I need to advocate for myself and ask questions of doctors and be responsible for the level of care I ask for and receive. That is good advice that a lot of people in society would benefit from.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 8, 2013 1:09 am

        Myles, I don’t think that this is something that you can gloss over with just claiming that it is okay that Mr. Duncan calls himself a doctor because he never calls himself a Dr. MD. The use of the title of Dr. when that title is bought from an unaccredited (and now defunct) distance education school is offensive to anyone and everyone who has actually earned a doctorate degree (I have not by the way, and I am offended because I know of the actual work involved). It says a tremendous amount about the lack of character of a person who would use that honorific without actually putting in the real amount of work to earn it, and for you to just push it aside as if it isn’t a big deal, I find bothersome. You have earned your Doctorate. How would you feel if people were buying alternative chemical engineering PhD’s from distance schools and calling themselves PhD ACE’s. I personally think that buying the honorific of Dr. in the form of a PhD is about as low as a person can sink and I don’t know why you are giving Mr. Lindsey a pass on this.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 8, 2013 1:34 am

        Lindsey Duncan guys knows his stuff, in terms of nutrition, and I would bet you money that if you go to the geographically nearest nutritionist to you (just so there’s no cherry-picking who you ask), they would have nothing but the highest opinion of him if they are familiar with his work. He is extremely well educated, regardless of what controversial non-accredited school he went to, and he spent 28 years getting paid to use holistic healing in a clinical setting. I understand why you guys are upset, I just don’t agree with you about it. I like holistic healing, and I am quite capable of discerning quackery from good science. I have friends with legitimate PhD’s who are far less deserving of the title “Dr.” than Lindsey Duncan, no matter what meaning you associate with the word. I am not offended that he uses it as his title. I would prefer if holistic healing was accepted in the mainstream and subjected to rigorous academic standards, and if pharmaceuticals were criticized much more heavily and prescribed much less frequently. I am not surprised that the foremost holistic school was non-accredited and then sued into non-existence. Such is the over-medicated big-pharma controlled world we live in.

      • Robert permalink
        July 8, 2013 8:45 am

        “Lindsey Duncan guys knows his stuff, in terms of nutrition”

        Duncan may very well “know his stuff”. No one is disputing whether he is knowledgable in his field of work…..even more knowledgable than others who DO have Phds, but that is irrelevant (although it does beg the question if he is so smart and knowledgeable in his field why doesn’t he just go to real school and get a real degree and put this issue to rest).

        What we are asking you to do Myles is give us a ethical ascertation of someone who uses a fake degree and fake title. Put simply, please answer this:

        What do you think it says about Lindsey Duncan’s integrity that he would choose to use a fake degree to falsely (and some cases illegally) call himself a Doctor?

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 8, 2013 7:50 pm

        EXACTLY! Thank you.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 10, 2013 1:31 pm

        Okay, so I figured I would give you the benefit of the doubt here and do as you suggested. I reached out to the one and only nutritionist that I know, Keri Gans. She is well spoken, clearly credentialed, she is the spokesperson for the American Dietetic Association and the author of the Small Change Diet. She is clearly capable of rendering an independent and qualified opinion. Here is what I wrote:
        A debate has broken out on my blog regarding Dr. Lindsey Duncan. So as not to poison your response in any way, I will not go into details about who is suggesting what. The issue came down to this response:

        “Lindsey Duncan guys knows his stuff, in terms of nutrition, and I would bet you money that if you go to the geographically nearest nutritionist to you (just so there’s no cherry-picking who you ask), they would have nothing but the highest opinion of him if they are familiar with his work.”

        Given you are the only nutritionalist I know, I figured I would ask you if you knew of him and if you had an opinion about him.

        Her response was:
        I have never even heard of him !!!!

        Will google him later and let you know what i think 🙂

        Followed by:
        fyi — from what i read on his website — not a fan 😦

        That is all she wrote: The following is my editorial!!
        It seems that you supporters of him are so insular to take his language of mumbo jumbo (it really is just that) and think because it is being spoken by an articular and charismatic man, it must be true. He uses statements like, triple threat of health, and not just triple threat, but 5X threat…
        Anyone who is educated in health and fitness can see through this guy. It isn’t a drug companies keeping the little guy down issue either. I share most of your concerns with the pharmaceutical companies and their behavior, but I don’t agree that because they are profit driven and unethical, LIndsey Duncan makes sense. He still doesn’t. Eat well and exercise. Keep your weight down and try eating whole foods and avoiding refined foods and you can avoid the pharmaceutical companies for as long as possible and Mr. Duncan as well!

      • July 10, 2013 4:39 pm

        Wow… she started out with a lie first off… “Anyone who is educated in health and fitness can see through this guy.” Since this is simply not true… we have RN, MD, DO, personal trainers, nutritionists, body builders, fitness centers, etc… all supporting GP products and their results and have the highest regard for Dr. Lindsey Duncan.

        Even Dr. Gerald Bresnahan, MD, one of the top cardiologists in the country is so in support of the Doctor, that he is now on the advisory board of his company. And this guy doesn’t put his name on anything for just money… he has to believe in what you are doing.

        Sorry, not buying it. This lady may be an RD, but I know RDs and most aren’t who I would go to for nutrition… I will stick 28 years of experience over schooled knowledge which is based on holistic nutrition instead of FDA approval.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 11, 2013 1:07 am

        Lol… Her last comment was after Followed By:
        fyi — from what i read on his website — not a fan 😦

        The rest was my editorial. Sorry for the confusion. I updated the comment to be clear!

        I did look up the Dr. Gerald Bresnaham, MD though… that guy has subscribed to more of these companies, getting involved and selling their products. Just amazing. He is hooked on MLM’s. He does put his name on a lot of products, but he does always say he believes in the products he supports… Like Trivani. and Bios Life. And those were just in the first 3 links in Google…

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 10, 2013 4:54 pm

        … and by geographically closest so you don’t cherry pick, I meant just pick one of your friends who shares your opinions. Sadly, I am not surprised this was your interpretation and methodology. Kery “My philosophy is simple: diets don’t work.” Gans probably did a level of research similar to what you do as well. I will respond to your longer post when I have time. Eat well, exercise, and avoid pharmaceutical companies is exactly what Lindsey Duncan recommends. And take organic nutrient dense supplements created by the world’s top holistic healers. She didn’t even comment on that last one.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 10, 2013 5:05 pm

        Frankly I do think Dr. Lindsey has a lot of mumbo jumbo, she was right about that but wrong to disregard him because of it. I couldn’t care less, in fact I appreciate it on some level, because most people aren’t going to understand or comprehend if I told them that the multivitamin has tocotrienols or whatever else. Lindsey Duncan does a great job with his products, but yes he does have a good marketing team as well. If pretty bottles help people consume organic superfruits, so be it. Frankly I would drink it out of a dirty cardboard re-used wine box, I couldn’t care less, I just want those good molecules.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 11, 2013 1:08 am

        Sorry Myles,

        Her last comment was after Followed By:
        fyi — from what i read on his website — not a fan 😦

        The rest was my editorial. Sorry for the confusion. I updated the comment to be clear!

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 10, 2013 5:14 pm

        Lindsey Duncan’s dietary advice to people is, “The more you educate yourself, the better care you can take of yourself and your family, for ultimately, you are in charge of your health and welfare…no one else can or will do a better job!” I like that advice a lot.

      • Robert permalink
        July 11, 2013 11:15 am

        That’s not exactly correct. In the case of children, health decisions are usually in the hands of the parents. This is where GenesisPURE is truely dangerous. My friend has several very young children that she forces to take GP products – including Green Coffee Bean. We’re talking about children as young as 3 years old. That should be illegal – but sadly it’s not.

        Herein lies the danger with “health” companies like GenesisPURE. These products are not well regulated or studied. Longterm effects at various doseages and in various combinations are completely unknown on adults, let alone children (as the whole company is barely four years old), and 99% of the representatives selling the products have zero medical training or background and are advising people to take these products – or give these products to their children – and they don’t have the slightest clue what they’re talking about but pretend to.

        Obviously RN (Mark) does have medical training and a medical background but he is the exception, not the rule. I probably know a 100 or more GenesisPURE IBOs and not one of them has any sort of medical background. But I guess what do expect coming from a company that was founded by a “doctor” who is about as much of a doctor as Dr. Dre.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 11, 2013 1:09 pm

        You are misinformed and incorrect on this. Genesis PURE has protocols for all its products including age limits. It is up to the parent to abide by these and determine. To put this on Genesis PURE is reaching really high. Parents can also go to a Vitamin store and put their children on these vitamins with the same recommendations printed on the bottle. I suppose Genesis PURE is also responsible for people who made decide to drink a whole bottle of Go-Yin at one time when there are labels and instructions.

      • Robert permalink
        July 11, 2013 1:56 pm

        If you are going to accuse me of being misinformed then you need to back up that accusation with evidence.

        You sir, are the one who is misinformed and I am more than happy to provide the specific evidence proving it…..

        You claim GenesisPURE has age limits placed on their products. Please point us to the exact products you are referring to that clearly state on the product lable that the product is to be used only by adults? Or, if you prefer, you can direct me to the exact link on the GenesisPURE website that states these products are not to be used by or administered to children.

        No such labels or warnings exist. You may talk about “age protocols” (whatever that means) during your rah-rah cult gatherings amongst yourselves but you sure as hell don’t put it on your products. I am looking at a bottle of Green Coffee Bean right now and the only reference to children is “keep out of reach of children” which all medications, including children’s medications, have on them for fear they could choke or consume the entire bottle. Flintstone Children’s Vitamins have a “keep out of reach of children” label on them. That doesn’t mean they are not to be administered to children under adult supervision (which is what my friend does with GP to her kids).

        Nowhere does GenesisPURE say that their products are to be used by adults aged 18 or over only. Not on their product labels. Not on their website. Nowhere. And to assume people are (or should) just “know” not to give this stuff to their kids is ridiculous.

        Furthermore, if everything you state about GP products is true…..that it so pure and natural and good for you and gives the body what it needs to heal itself…….why WOULDN’T you be giving it to your kids?????

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 11, 2013 2:07 pm

        Mark Ketchum definitely appears to be uninformed.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 11, 2013 2:24 pm

        I’m still swamped at work and have no time to go over all the comments made, but this one I have to jump quickly for. There are extensive guidelines detailing exactly which products are not recommended for children under 18/under 12. Most of these are overly precautionary, which is the standard in our culture. There is nothing to criticize here, unless you are just flatly uninformed. If you had a membership you would go into your login and it has all the documents you need to make excellent decisions. Of course no one would recommend giving kids green coffee bean – there’s just no benefits to be gained, 3-year olds should just be eating healthy, they’re supposed to be fat. Personally I buy my kids whole-foods vitamins, but GP doesn’t have one in the product lineup yet, so I buy it elsewhere. They put out responsible, easy to understand guidelines. I forget who has the membership but cancelled their products – but that guy can log in and verify everything I have said. All of the criticism in the above comment from Robert is 100% false. Robert, I have already pointed out to you that your attempt to hold GP responsible for everything anyone does is flatly ridiculous. You are easily the most dishonest and/or uninformed of all the people leveling criticism. And you have no excuse whatever for your behavior, it is absolutely reprehensible for you to constantly spout lies and ridiculous baseless criticism just because you have such disdain for your friend. I already called you out on your blaming GP for everything under the sun – of course you didn’t respond. Shame on you. I will be glad to respond to every ridiculous thing you have said when I have more time.

      • Robert permalink
        July 11, 2013 5:55 pm

        Myles….where on any of the product labels does it state “not for children under 18 years of age”. People read product labels for directions and instructions on how to take supplements and medications.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 11, 2013 7:26 pm

        Robert, I didn’t say anything about the type of colon cleansing you are arguing against. I would never recommend anyone take synthetic chemical laxatives, and I was not talking about getting a colon cleanse because I have never done it or studied it. What I am talking about, is taking a mixture of herbs and roots that is made from plants and is not synthetic. It is not the same as just taking a laxative like you buy at a drugstore.

        When you attribute an argument to me that is easy for you to argue against, but is not actually what I said, that is called a straw-man argument. You do that a lot. It’s not good for the discussion and helps no one understand anything better.

        From WebMD (I’m busy at work, no time for more extensive research on this):
        http://www.webmd.com/balance/guide/natural-colon-cleansing-is-it-necessary?page=3

        “What you eat — not what you flush through your colon — may have the greatest impact on colon health, lowering your risk of colon cancer and enhancing your overall health.”

        They are talking mostly about fiber, but what plants you eat matters as well as fiber. Nutrtient-dense plants are good for you. So are roots and herbs that help your body detoxify. GP liquid cleanse is just roots and herbs, nothing synthetic, and not the same as just taking synthetic over the counter laxatives, which I would not recommend at all.

      • Robert permalink
        July 11, 2013 9:00 pm

        Myles:
        The WebMD article you quoted to support your argument does just the opposite. Did you intend that or did you just not have enough time to actually read the article you quoted?

        Below is what the very article you cited states about “natural” colon cleansing…..

        “Remember that “natural” doesn’t necessarily mean safe. The government doesn’t regulate natural colon cleansing products, so their potency, safety, and purity can’t be guaranteed…
        The health claims made by producers of colon cleansing products and colon irrigation practitioners are broad and wide-reaching…Colon cleansing has been studied in relation to a few health concerns…In most of these cases, no quality research has been done to tell whether or not a colon cleansing is helpful.”

        Colon cleansing is straight up quackery. Cleaning “toxins” out of your butt hole is quackery that’s been around for hundreds of years and it’s right up there with blood-letting curing infections and masturbation causing blindness.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 11, 2013 9:55 pm

        A lot of critics here keep making the same mistake.

        “In most of these cases, no quality research has been done to tell whether or not a colon cleansing is helpful.”

        Is NOT the same as,

        “Quality research has indicated there is no benefit.”

        Do you understand that? Stop making that mistake in the arguments. Thanks.

        Robert, I want an APOLOGY. I have shown you a medical doctor who says detoxification is good for people (but you need to go slow to avoid detox going too fast and causing some symptoms, I touched on that aspect above). It took me two minutes to find this video. I’m sure with more time I could find many more MD’s. Now shut your ignorant, hateful mouth and let me have a conversation with the blogger. All I want to hear from you is, “I’m sorry Myles, I’m very full of myself even though I am very ignorant and uninformed, and I realize now that there are medical doctors who believe that herbal detoxification is a good thing for people to do. I should not criticize you when I have no clue what I am talking about.” You don’t know how I sleep at night…. You are overconfident and stupid. I sleep very well at night and I probably have done more for the world in one day than you have in your hateful, stupid life.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 11, 2013 11:31 pm

        Myles, I will grant you that some MD’s support cleansing. Dr. Junger, Dr. Oz, and this guy above are 3. It is rare, but you would argue that is because all doctors have a predilection to medicate instead of heal… fine.
        In any case, I do think you have gotten down to the core of the difference here:
        “In most of these cases, no quality research has been done to tell whether or not a colon cleansing is helpful.”

        Is NOT the same as,

        “Quality research has indicated there is no benefit.”

        For myself, and Robert and Fred and the others, we require Quality Research on a subject before we take action or give over our belief. I want research that a medicine will heal me or that a juice will do what the manufacturers claim. Without the research, I would argue that we are just following witchcraft. Fundamentally though, you and Mark are different and you believe that these things are good for you and without research to prove they don’t work, you believe the claims. It seems as though you believe because of the people who are making the claims. These could just be foundational fundamental beliefs and no amount of arguing will get us to change.
        Simply, if we were arguing about the existence of a god, some people want proof he or she exists before they will believe, others want proof he or she doesn’t before they will disbelieve.
        Fair enough.
        But this much you must grant me. Your Mr. Lindsey may have years of clinical evidence in watching patience take a multitude of healing modalities and he may have developed theories of healing and determining what is best for different people and ailments. He may even believe that he is now sharing his healing ideas with the world, but HE HAS TO STOP PRETENDING HE KNOWS THE PROCESSES BY WHICH THEY WORK. Without the science, without the research it is impossible that anyone know how these things work. Even if he has witnessed a cause and effect, without science it is impossible that he knows the pathways by which they work. The mumbo jumbo he spouts about how these things work is absurd. It is offensive to scientist and our entire body of science. Even if I grant you every part of what you believe Mr. Lindsey has learned in his clinical setting, it would be impossible that he secretly has divined also how these things work without quality science, science he clearly does not have!
        In any case, I don’t think much if any good research will be forthcoming on these issues. The reason is simple. They don’t work. A few of all of these supplements will have a very small but measurable effect. The rest are pure crap. No one will try to disprove that these work, why would they? So we will see studies done by supplement companies that are poorly designed with the intent of coming up with positive results. We will continue to see claims of studies that aren’t peer reviewed and whose methods are never published. What we won’t see is the well designed studies that come up with the result that the supplement doesn’t work at all because these will be buried and thrown away.
        If any of these supplements actually worked, the pharmaceutical companies would have distilled the working ingredient, increased its power and sold it back to us a proprietary drug.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 12, 2013 12:20 am

        I think it’s fine to require proof before you do something. It’s not OK to pretend that because it hasn’t been proven true, you have proven it false. Tell me, what is the cost of an average pharmaceutical clinical trial? Expensive, right? Vitamin companies don’t make billions of dollars, so they can’t throw down millions on studies. Moreover, pharmaceutical companies have been shown time and again to provide studies and obtain the required license to sell products that both do not work and hurt people. Dr. Lindsey sells whole foods supplements. Those are way better for you than synthetic anything. Speaking of that,
        “If any of these supplements actually worked, the pharmaceutical companies would have distilled the working ingredient, increased its power and sold it back to us a proprietary drug.”
        Yes, synthetic vitamins. They’re everywhere, and not good for you.

        ” Fundamentally though, you and Mark are different and you believe that these things are good for you and without research to prove they don’t work, you believe the claims.”

        No, that is not true. I understand nutrition science, so perhaps it is much less of a leap for me than for people who have no knowledge in this area. I have seen plenty of studies on vitamins and know what to look for when I evaluate products. Yes, I did try the Go-Yin even when I was skeptical and didn’t think it would work. It’s like $1 a day for a month, no big deal if it doesn’t work, it’s just fruits and herbs, no problem. Well, I took a chance, and I’m glad I did. I wouldn’t have bought a one-year supply ahead of time! And I wouldn’t have spent a lot of money without trying it first at a low cost. I did not care who Dr. Lindsey was when I got introduced to GP. I like that he studied with Bernard Jensen, that is about all. I looked at this products, read ingredient labels, compared prices. I found the stuff that is key for identifying good products tocotrienols, etc. I do not believe stuff because of who someone is. I may give a product a try because someone has provided solid evidence of their knowledge in nutrition. That is scientific and reasonable.

        “HE HAS TO STOP PRETENDING HE KNOWS THE PROCESSES BY WHICH THEY WORK”

        What process are you talking about? I think he does a good job of differentiating between what he understands and what he does not. His friend (I forget his name) the master of Chinese Medicine formulated Go-Yin, and Dr. Lindsey admits he does not really understand it. I don’t either, frankly, and I don’t care because I took a small financial risk and I like the product.

        Anyway, I wish you would admit these things: 1)You are flat-out wrong about your views on multivitamin supplements, in direct opposition to what is recommended by the American Medical Association 2) GP’s multivitamin ranks very high by unbiased third party Medical Doctors. 3) You doubt everything that is unproven by peer-reviewed journal articles, and have a tendency to believe that everything unproven in that way is false. This is you personal skepticism, which is fine, but you have not scientifically shown any supplement to be ineffective, not green coffee beans, not any GP products. 4) You have never studied nutrition seriously in an academic, molecular fashion.

        ” Even if I grant you every part of what you believe Mr. Lindsey has learned in his clinical setting, it would be impossible that he secretly has divined also how these things work without quality science, science he clearly does not have!”

        Science very often involves empirical derivation of knowledge. This is true in almost all forms of engineering, and it would make sense for it to also be true in clinical nutrition work too. If Lindsey Duncan has seen the effects of various herbs, vitamins, superfruits, etc., and developed formulations based on his rigorous observations, that is science. He does not have to understand all the processes for his knowledge to be scientific, do you understand this? It means the knowledge is empirical, not theoretical. Theoretical knowledge is always better, but sometimes impractical. If we demanded theoretical knowledge and rejected empirical methods of derivation, almost all engineering of the last 100 years would have been impossible.

        “In any case, I don’t think much if any good research will be forthcoming on these issues. The reason is simple. They don’t work. A few of all of these supplements will have a very small but measurable effect. The rest are pure crap.”

        Here you are again, substituting your own uneducated opinion as scientific fact. You don’t know this. You are just saying it with no evidence. That is fine for your own personal decision making, I don’t care if you know what tocotrienols are or if you think taking a multivitamin is a good idea. You can think whatever you want, just stop confusing your own uneducated opinions with facts. The reason these studies aren’t done is because rigorous clinical trials are very expensive. GP can’t afford to spend 200 million dollars running rigorous FDA certified trials for every single product it has. It’s the same reason dichloroacetate (DCA) hasn’t been given rigorous clinical trials for cancer efficacy. Whoever paid for those trials would get zero return on their money, because they can’t patent it. Money is the reason why there aren’t more rigorous clinical trials.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 6:02 am

        Oh I have researched and I have found that supplements like these are good for you. With over 20 years in Hospice Home Health and geriatrics, I have witnessed first hand dying people, placed on Hospice, getting their medications tweaked and reduced because Medicare doesn’t pay for the medications which are not related to their terminal illness… only to watch those people come alive and graduate Hospice. Those physicians (I am not anti-physician) that you hold so reverent… the ones that don’t support detoxification… are the same ones that give 3 duplicative medications for the same issue, and then give medications to combat the s/e of those medications, and then give medications to combat the s/e of those medications. I am proud to say that when I visit my patients that I understand those patients whom the physicians deem as uncooperative and non-compliant with their meds… because I will be the same way. Take me off my meds and put me on some good nutrition darn it!!!

        It sickens me to watch grown men debate whether or not nutrient dense foods are good for you… and it sickens me to watch this knowing that they actually know better but are just arguing because they are in too deep to admit defeat… or that they actually think physicians and their groups and studies, etc… are gods.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 12, 2013 4:16 pm

        It is so odd to hear you say this. Yes, we probably over medicate the sick and dying and we don’t even remotely have a sense of dying with dignity, but it seems as though you are saying that the medications are killing all of these poor people and if we would just stop with medicines, people would get healthy.
        You are aware that at no time in human history have people lived as vibrant, healthy lives as they do now? All of these things that you see as killing people, medicines, toxins, poor soils, these things that are for you at a crisis point and the cause of all that is wrong with health, don’t seem to be having much impact on human life expectancy, in fact they are having an inverse relationship…

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 6:19 pm

        it seems as though you are saying that the medications are killing all of these poor people and if we would just stop with medicines, people would get healthy.

        Yes, yes, and Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Gastroesophageal reflux disease is not a Prilosec deficiency!!!
        Diabetes is not a Glipizide deficiency!!!!!!!!!!
        Metoprolol is not a cardiovascular deficiency!!!!!!!!!

        All these medications do is either mask symptoms, trick the body into doing something it is no longer doing, or nothing at all… and at the same time supplying our body with something it wasn’t designed to have… adding a slow poison to our body.

        Sure, there are some Rx that do real good, but for the most part… NO!!!! Why not quit taking medications and eat healthy and exercise and change our lifestyle instead of more medications? Because that is not a concern of the money making big businesses.

        Do you not see this?

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 12, 2013 5:20 pm

        Myles, I am not substituting my own opinion as scientific fact. I clearly state I don’t think… :
        “In any case, I don’t think much if any good research will be forthcoming on these issues. The reason is simple. They don’t work. A few of all of these supplements will have a very small but measurable effect. The rest are pure crap.”

        that is not scientific fact. I don’t state that it is. I try to make my editorializing clear.
        You asked me to admit the following 4 things… Here are my responses:

        Anyway, I wish you would admit these things:

        1)You are flat-out wrong about your views on multivitamin supplements, in direct opposition to what is recommended by the American Medical Association

        I may very well be wrong about multi-vitamins. I believe that if you eat a healthy and balanced diet, you do not need multi-vitamins. Most doctors do recommend getting some vitamin D and vitamin E in your diet and many recommend purified fish oil supplements. I do not take any of these items, although if I were to supplement my diet at all, this is where I would start. As I said, I could be wrong on this issue.

        2) GP’s multivitamin ranks very high by unbiased third party Medical Doctors.

        I have no idea. I don’t take vitamins. I don’t think that a daily multivitamin is a scam though, and if GP has a good multivitamin, it has a good multivitamin. That could be verified by independent testing.

        3) You doubt everything that is unproven by peer-reviewed journal articles, and have a tendency to believe that everything unproven in that way is false. This is you personal skepticism, which is fine, but you have not scientifically shown any supplement to be ineffective, not green coffee beans, not any GP products.

        You are right here, but I don’t think I am wrong. I do believe that if these products worked, you would see a larger effect. As I have said before, early in my blog, if there was a diet product that actually had a significant impact, we would actually see a shift from a nation gaining weight to a nation losing weight. We would look around us and say, geez, so many people are losing weight, how is that happening? I need to find out. Because I don’t see this, I am doubting anyone has found the weightloss secrets. Same for disease, longetivity, cancer, colds, etc.
        I have see so many things come along and hype a cure or a treatment and then months or years later get disproven or fail to be proven. This has led me to be skeptical, something I do not deny. I have not proven Green Coffee Beans to not help in weightloss, and I actually think they may have some small impact, to tell you the truth. The thing is, I know what will have a huge impact and will cost a lot less and that is exercise and eating healthy whole foods. I don’t think GCBE is a miracle in a bottle or even enough of a solution for most people, but I have not proven this.

        4) You have never studied nutrition seriously in an academic, molecular fashion.

        True. I will absolutely grant you this. I have not studied nutrition in any fashion. I have not taken courses, I have no degree or diploma in nutrition. Nothing of the sort. I did take a course in University on Methods in Scientific Research though, so I do know a fair amount about understanding scientific research and statistics.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 12, 2013 8:26 pm

        Thank you for your honest responses. I appreciate that very much.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 5:56 am

        “For myself, and Robert and Fred and the others, we require Quality Research on a subject before we take action or give over our belief.”

        No you don’t. If you did you would require Quality Research showing that it doesn’t work before you were anti-“it”… but you aren’t. You are out in full force against it.

        You only require Quality Research if you disagree with it. If you agree with it, then you require Quality Research to prove you are wrong.

        Kind of like atheism. They purport to “just not believe” that God exists… when in actuality they believe that He does not exist. There is a difference… once is passive and the other is active. One is not believing He is and one is believing that He is not. When you are passive, you live and let live… when you are active, you form a posse and visit all of the religious sites and declare His non-existence… despite any Quality Research to the contrary.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 12, 2013 5:00 pm

        This doesn’t make sense again Mark. I am against con artists. I am against people who purport to know things that they clearly do not. I am against the scammer taking advantage of the hopeless. I was once overweight and I can’t count the number of purported experts I saw that claimed they had the method for weight loss, or they had the new fad diet that really worked.
        Until you understand what you have to do (the you is personal, for everyone it is slightly different) to lose weight and get fit in your life, you are extremely prone to believing these con artists. Now that I am fit and have this blog to help give people unbiased answers to who is suggesting unsupported weight loss programs, I intend to help supply that information and make it available to those struggling with weight gain.
        Why I mention all of this, is that MLMs definitely come across my radar selling scam products, although I was mostly leaving Mr. Lindsey Duncan’s scam MLM out, and just going after his tremendous lack of integrity and his slippery sales techniques regarding his non MLM products. Still, many other products have come up, including Lipozene, KimKins diet, Jillian Michaels and Basic Research, Sensa, Ab Circle Pro, Graham Gibson and Central Coast Nutraceuticals, Banital, and the Vibro-belt. I don’t have a distinct bent against MLMs, just against scams that target my audience, those who would like to live a fitter and healthier life. Unfortunately they are your target audience too.
        So, that is why I am anti. I have proof that each of these people attempted to defraud people in different ways, and I have put that on this blog. You have never once responded to the proof that Mr. Duncan started a company under his wife’s name, that is run by the people who run his business and he has promoted that people buy products from them without once admitting to having this connection. I have proven that this is the case. I consider that fraudulent behavior. I think most people do.
        I have no idea if drinking Noni juice will heal herpes, or whatever claims you guys make. I am skeptical, but I am not saying it isn’t possible. I am saying that I have exposed tremendous ethical problems with Lindsey Duncan and for that reason I don’t believe him. Others here have shown other problems. There is a preponderance of evidence on why not to trust him. I am not saying that all of his claims or false or that none of these claims are possible, but I am saying I have no reason in the world to believe him.
        Do you see the difference?
        With respect to atheism, it is quite simple. Why your god Mark? Why should I believe the New Testament? Why isn’t the Old Testament alone good enough for me (the Jews), or what is wrong with the Book of Mormon? (the Mormons). Should I believe the Koran that said Jesus was only a prophet like Allah (Muslims)? The list just goes on, Baptists, Quakers, Southern Day Adventists, Buddists, Taoists, The Spaghetti Monster. The problem is that you are making this into a false dilemma. There isn’t just one religion to choose from, nor one God. It isn’t belief or disbelief, but why would I believe any one version that doesn’t even make sense, and according to many of these religions, I have to choose only one. Even the God you believe in doesn’t match the God from your books. Would you not provide your hospice care on a Sunday? In any case, I don’t trust Mr. Lindsey for the reasons I stated. I don’t take any medicines, or herbs unless I have some (ideally a lot of) clinical evidence on humans that they are both safe and that they do what they claim to. I don’t believe in a God that thinks it is okay to sell your daughter into slavery.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 6:31 pm

        With respect to atheism, it is quite simple. Why your god Mark?

        He is not “my” God… He is God… that is why. It doesn’t matter what others believe… it doesn’t matter if there are those that believe 911 was an inside job or that we didn’t land on the moon or that Santa Claus is real. Despite all these beliefs… there is still Truth whether we believe it or not.

        Why should I believe the New Testament?

        Actually you will never believe the New Testament unless God changes your heart. You have to first believe in Him before you can believe in His Word.

        Why isn’t the Old Testament alone good enough for me (the Jews), or what is wrong with the Book of Mormon? (the Mormons).

        As a Jew, you should know the answer to this one… or do you believe, as a Jew, that the god you believe in isn’t real? And if you believe he is real… then I don’t understand your question about the book of mormon.

        Should I believe the Koran that said Jesus was only a prophet like Allah (Muslims)?

        ????? Are you Jewish or are you atheist? If atheist… you shouldn’t believe in anything.

        Even the God you believe in doesn’t match the God from your books.

        How do you know this? I thought you said you believed in having scientific evidence before you made a claim or before you believed anything. There is no scientific evidence to support that I believe in a god that doesn’t match the God from the Bible. I have never told you what I believe. So which part of the Bible doesn’t match my God?

        Would you not provide your hospice care on a Sunday?

        No, I would not… as I am off on Sundays. When I am on call, I would. But then again Jesus was all for working on Sundays.

        In any case, I don’t trust Mr. Lindsey for the reasons I stated. I don’t take any medicines, or herbs unless I have some (ideally a lot of) clinical evidence on humans that they are both safe and that they do what they claim to. I don’t believe in a God that thinks it is okay to sell your daughter into slavery.

        My God doesn’t believe that… He loves my daughter.

        Boom!@

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 13, 2013 1:04 am

        You are right, it is wrong of me to presume, it is just that I have never met someone who actually literally believed the bible and the word of God, so I assumed you did not as well… Some tough things to swallow in there, but if you are okay with them, great. I did not want to put words into your mouth. These questions always get me thinking though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1-ip47WYWc

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 13, 2013 8:57 am

        Wow…I’ve always loved that scene.

      • Robert permalink
        July 13, 2013 4:03 pm

        While the West Wing clip you provided makes for great television drama, I’m not sure it is what one would want to base their spiritual decisions upon.

        Just as I think it is wrong for GP IBOs who are not medical experts to make judgments and recommendations on people’s health, I think it is just as wrong for someone who is not a Christianity to make judgments on Christians.

        To address your rather weak “well the bible also says sell your daughter into slavery so everything in the bible is invalid” argument here is your answer….

        “The Bible” is two large books: The Old Testament and The New Testament. These books are seperated by Jesus Christ. Christians believe Jesus came to earth to bring a “new convenant” to man because man had so distorted the word of God (i.e. the salvery, stoning, capital punishments, weird rules about touching pigs, etc. etc. etc.). To Christians, Jesus came to teach us that most of these things were wrong and he specifically addressed these Old Testament “rules” many times in the Gospels….

        1. With respect to rules about what you eat, Jesus instructed us that “it is not what goes into a man’s mouth that is important, it is what comes out”

        2. With respect to stoning a woman who committed adultery, Jesus told the group they should not stone the woman. When the group said that is blasphemy because stoning is the punishment directed for this crime in the Old Testament, Jesus responded, “he without sin may cast the first stone”

        I could go but you get the point. More or less, every point you bring up in the Old Testament that is horrific there is something in the gospels of the New Testament that say not to do that. And to Christians, the New Testament is all that counts because that is the whole point of being “born again” – you throw away the rules of the old Bible and agree to follow the rules Jesus teaches.

        That said, there are a tiny handful of biblical “rules” (for lack of better word) that you find in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. One of these is homosexuality. Homosexuality was labled a sin both by the Old Testament and by Jesus in the New Testament.

        That is why Christians can be against homosexuality and for stoning an adulter and that doesn’t make them hypocrites.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 13, 2013 4:20 pm

        “Homosexuality was labled a sin both by the Old Testament and by Jesus in the New Testament.” Another bold-faced lie from Robert. Quote the passage for us Robert. Jesus said nothing of homosexuality being a sin.

        Vaughan, I have studied most of the religions of the world. Ancient Judaism was a very kind, loving religion compared to its peers at the time. It was essentially the first to teach that there is an unalienable duty to be kind to the poor and the needy. If there is a God who sends prophets to the world, I expect that those prophets bring the spirit of love and kindness and righteousness tempered with practical considerations. As time goes on, humans and human culture is expected to advance, and the rules change. Not the eternal rules, but what can be legitimately expected of humanity.

        Homosexuality as we understand it is different than what the Levitican code taught against. I have read the translations of the individual words from the original text and although it is very difficult to give a perfect English translation, it says, “from woman,” and my personal view is that they were saying that a man cannot be slutty with other men and loophole himself out of being considered an adulterer. This may not be a common interpretation, but I looked it up myself and to me it makes a lot of sense. Not eating shellfish, not embracing the traditions of surrounding pagan peoples, all of it makes sense in a certain time and place historically, but not today. The ancient Judaic code was an excellent survival mechanism for a people who lived in a desert and were constantly on the brink of starvation or some other form of annihilation.

        In my personal opinion, the appropriate way to become a spiritual person is to learn about the different religions and look primarily at similarities. They will prohibit different foods, actions, etc., but they have in common the same core values: love, respect, humility, charity, appreciation, honor, integrity, etc. These are the same values that atheists believe humans develop on their own without religion. All of this is to me evidence that there is probably one moral code beyond anyone’s opinion, and that each religion who claims to have a monopoly on Heaven can count that in the list of their traditions which should be abandoned as time goes on. Historically, and practically, I can see why that claim has survived. Otherwise, they have less motivation to keep their followers from leaving. And overall, I think each religion is good. All have some bad apples, but all have at their core the values that each person needs.

      • Robert permalink
        July 14, 2013 5:38 am

        First of all, the saying is “bald faced lie” not “bold faced lie”. Get it right because you look like an idiot.

        Secondly, there are several verses in the New Testament that condemn homosexuality and/or specifically indentify marriage as being between a man and a woman.

        “Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God”

        1 Corinthians 6:9-10

        “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

        Matthew 19:5

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 14, 2013 5:52 pm

        Robert, I hope I never wake up and realize I am a cocky, stupid, hateful person who corrects and criticizes other people without actually knowing what I am talking about.

        http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bal2.htm

        “But bold-faced goes back to Shakespeare in the sense of a shameless or impudent appearance, so it’s reasonable that a boldfaced lie is one told with a shamelessly bold face. At times it’s regarded as an error, though it’s to be found almost as early as barefaced lie:

        The sneer, the sarcasm, the one-sided statement, the perplexing reference, the qualified concession, the bold-faced lie, — all these we could well illustrate by samples of the current crop.

        Eclectic Review, Sept. 1832.”

        Shameless and impudent. Pretty sure I chose the right word. Uneducated and self-righteous too. You might be able to push your friend around and call her an idiot, but I am educated enough that you can’t pull that crap with me. Apologize right now if you have any integrity or self-respect.

      • Robert permalink
        July 14, 2013 10:04 pm

        I’m sorry you think “bold faced lie” is correct. I’m also sorry I called you an idiot. It is clear to me now that you are a fool, not an idiot. An idiot believes he is right because he has never learned he is wrong. A fool believes he is right even when he has been shown he is wrong. So again, I apologize.

        Happy?

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 15, 2013 12:02 am

        I appreciate your take on religions Myles. It is quite open and supportive and looks for the good in each of the religions, which I quite like.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 15, 2013 12:07 am

        Hey Robert, thanks for the illumination. You are right, Jesus did argue against many things in the old testament. Confuses me as to how a Christian incorporates both books into their lives, but thankfully that isn’t my problem. Must be tough though.
        I have a hard time reconciling any claim that Jesus would ever judge homosexuality. It doesn’t make sense with all of his messages of love. I am totally surprised that Christians have chosen to judge homosexuality at all, it totally seems backwards. It appears that the New Testament did not see women as equals either…

      • Robert permalink
        July 15, 2013 9:13 am

        Jesus Himself does not judge or condemn homosexuality anywhere in the Bible. There is not a quote or passage in the Gospels where Jesus speaks about homosexuality. Therefore, at most, we can say we don’t know how Jesus feels about it.

        However, Jesus’ apostles and disciples do speak of homosexuality and condemn it as sinful, specifically Peter. Christians argue that the apostles are speaking through Jesus through the Holy Spirit and therefore we know Jesus was against it.

        Personally, I don’t believe that. In terms of lifestyle choices, Jesus judged no one. Jesus actively sought out those living sinful lifestyles to minister to them (prostitues, theives, tax collectors, non-believers, adulters, etc.). When asked why he spent all his time with these types of people, Jesus replied, “It is not the well who need a doctor, but the sick”. It is abundantly clear to me that if Jesus truly felt homosexuals were living in sin He would have ministered to them as He did these other groups. And certainly He would have addressed it directly somewhere in the Gospels, versus leaving it to his disciples.

        However, Jesus address the institution of marriage directly in the Gospels numerous times and it is always described as being between one man and one woman. Nowhere does he state that’s what it HAS to be or that’s all it SHOULD be, just that that’s what it is.

        As far as women being held in a lower role or view as second class to men, that is another common rumor regarding Christianity, usually held by non-Christians, who have read little (if any) of the Gospels because it’s certainly not supported by the text of the New Testament. The most important figure in the New Testament (aside from Jesus Himself) is Mary the mother of Jesus. The 2nd most important figure in the New Testament after her is Mary Magdalene. Therefore, the top 3 most respected and important individuals in the New Testament are Jesus, the Virgin Mary, and Mary Magdalene. In fact, Catholics even worship and pray to the Virgin Mary. So to say there is misogyny in the New Testament just simply isn’t true and supported by the facts.

        That said, there are gender roles prescribed in the Gospels for men and women to follow. Directions are given to men for how to care for women and directions are given to men on how to care for men. Neither are held to a lower standard than the other, but because they are traditional gender roles many liberals would and do argue they are misogynist simply by virtue of that fact. I don’t buy that and disagree with it strongly….as do most Christians. Men and women can follow traditional gender roles without it putting either sex in a subordinate role to the other.

        Just as you wanted judge our entire Constitution by a few people’s skewed interpretation of it, or American Democracy by George W. Bush’s idea of it, I would encourage you not to judge the entire Christian faith by a few people’s skewed interpretation of it. Base it on what Jesus said in the Gospels. Granted, this takes quite a bit more effort, but I think you will find there is practically none of the scary homophobic mysogynist xenophobic teachings you seem to expect.

        Jesus could be called the first hippie. He was the first major historical figure in history to teach and argue for the concept of “equality” among all culltures, sexes, races, and socio-economic backgrounds that we are still striving for today two thousand years later. He was the first major historical figure to argue unconditional pacifism and against war or conflict or violence towards each another – ever – for any reason. He was the first to argue to respond with love when you are attacked with violence. He was the first to argue the merits of poverty and humbleness and against materialism and pride and the over-accumulation of wealth .

        There is much you can find wrong with the so-called followers of Jesus, but there is very little you can find “wrong” with Christ Himself or his teachings.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 15, 2013 11:29 pm

        Hey Robert,

        Great to hear your interpretation. I like your inclusive reading of Christianity. To tell you the truth, I agree with your take on Christ. From what I have read he did seem like a pretty awesome hippie like guy at a time of violence.

        As for marriage, I think the state shouldn’t be involved at all in marriage. Any church can define marriage any way it wants and the separation of church and state is maintained and everyone is happy.

        Take Care.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 12, 2013 8:23 pm

        “Now that I am fit and have this blog to help give people unbiased answers to who is suggesting unsupported weight loss programs, I intend to help supply that information and make it available to those struggling with weight gain.”

        This is why I got so upset with you before, Vaughan. You are deeply biased against nutriceuticals, and you are not at all knowledgeable about the subject, so much so that you give advice directly contradicting that of the American Medical Association. You have not responded to this although I have pointed it out and asked for you to apologize for giving people bad advice that could have very serious consequences for their health.

        The green coffee beans that you wrote this blog article about do in fact promote weight loss. Your biased opinion is not equivalent to a journal article. Your personal opinion that green coffee beans are a scam product should be discussed as such. Not as fact. Not as proven by science. That is why I got upset and called you the scam artist before. You masquerade as this heroic scientific policeman when you do not even understand the basics of what you are talking about.

      • Robert permalink
        July 12, 2013 9:45 am

        Hey Myles how much “GenesisPURE Silver” have you sold today?………You know it can lead to irreverseable cell damage and even organ failure right? But hey, who cares if it adds more people to your downline, right? Health and wealth baby….health and wealth! (emphasis on wealth)

        Here’s what real doctors have to say about probably the most dangerous GenesisPURE product out there: Colloidal Silver ………..

        “With hype and hope spread by word of mouth and the Internet, colloidal silver is believed by some to help treat a range of infections and diseases.

        “People believe that colloidal silver can treat fungal infections, TB, HIV, herpes, and even cancer by boosting the immune system,” says Ted Epperly, MD, president-elect of the American Academy of Family Physicians.

        Unfortunately for colloidal sliver supporters, they’re wrong, and the consequences of their mistake could be costly.

        “One of the most well-known side effects of colloidal silver is that it turns a person’s skin a greyish shade of blue,” says Epperly.

        The skin isn’t the only organ affected by colloidal silver; so are the kidneys, stomach, and brain, as well as the nervous system. Silver is actually deposited into the cells of these organs, possibly causing cell damage and death, leading to organ failure.

        “The effects of colloidal silver are toxic and cumulative,” says Epperly. “Worse, they’re irreversible.”

        Epperly urges people to ignore the hype and instead, talk to a health care provider about the proper way to treat infections and diseases.

        http://women.webmd.com/features/5-home-remedy-no-nos?page=3

        What is colloidal silver, why do people take it, and what other health risks does it pose? For answers, WebMD spoke with Andrew Shao, PhD, vice president of scientific and regulatory affairs at the Council for Responsible Nutrition, a trade group for the dietary supplements industry. Other background information comes from the web sites of the FDA and the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM).

        What is colloidal silver? Colloidal silver is composed of tiny silver particles suspended in liquid.Colloidal silver products are often marketed with unproven health claims. “Examples include that they benefit the immune system; kill disease-causing agents such as bacteria, viruses, and fungi; are an alternative to prescription antibiotics; or treat diseases such as cancer, HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, syphilis, scarlet fever, shingles, herpes, pneumonia, and prostatitis (inflammation of the prostate),” states the NCCAM’s web site.

        Colloidal silver is LIKELY UNSAFE for use. The silver in colloidal silver products gets deposited in vital organs such as the skin, liver, spleen, kidney, muscle, and brain. This can lead to an irreversible bluish skin discoloration that first appears in the gums. It can also stimulate melanin production in skin, and areas exposed to the sun will become increasingly discolored.

        http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-779-colloidal+silver.aspx?activeIngredientId=779&activeIngredientName=colloidal+silver&source=1

        Yeah, keep slinging that Silver and go get yourself that Team Bonus check! Maybe you can even make triple-black-diamond-presidential. Hopefully you just don’t kill anybody in the process. Again, I don’t know how you sleep at night.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 10:40 am

        Robert, don’t confuse these greedy con men with facts from real doctors who actually attended a real university.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 12, 2013 11:42 am

        Fred go read that Fox News article about real doctors publishing real journal articles about using colloidal silver to treat MRSAs. They must be con men just like me, or else you and Robert are wrong about what you are saying. I’ll take an apology any time, thanks. You can kill yourself with too much water, vitamin C, or iron. I would caution people to be careful with colloidal silver and use it infrequently, that is all.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 12:00 pm

        At least you are referencing an actual scientific study. And it seems to be absolute proof that a study using petri dishes and mice means that the product is safe and effective for humans

        Bong!

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 12:12 pm

        SUMMARY: The Food and Drug
        Administration (FDA) is issuing a final
        rule establishing that all over-thecounter (OTC) drug products containing
        colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts for internal or external use are not
        generally recognized as safe and
        effective and are misbranded. FDA is
        issuing this final rule because many
        OTC drug products containing colloidal
        silver ingredients or silver salts are
        being marketed for numerous serious
        disease conditions and FDA is not
        aware of any substantial scientific
        evidence that supports the use of OTC
        colloidal silver ingredients or silver
        salts for these disease conditions
        DATES: This regulation is effective
        September 16, 1999.

        POP!

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:16 pm

        Copied for your pleasure…

        The FDA, over the years, has garnered a well deserved reputation for being a puppet of the food and drug industries, and putting corporate money over the health and safety of the American people.

        A example of this, and the proof mentioned in the title of this thread, is the outlawing of stevia. Stevia is a natural herb that acts as a sweetener, and is a diabetic safe sugar alternative.

        Unlike artificial sweeteners that are sold in products such as sweet n’ low, stevia has no added chemicals, and many studies have show that it has little or no adverse health concerns involved with it.

        In 1991, the FDA outlaws stevia to be imported to the US (It is not native to North America), citing an anonymous warning to them that stevia caused several health problems, and other concerns. They named it an “unsafe food additive, but never gave any facts of statistics to base these claims on, and refused to name the group that sent the original warning. The FDA was forced to release this warning, but to protect the people who sent it, they erased all information prior to doing so.

        These actions have prompted many to accuse the FDA of blatant corruption in favor of the artificial sweetener, and sugar industries, which poised to lose millions if stevia became a household name.

        In 1994, a law, known as the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act, forced the FDA to allow stevia for use as a dietary supplement, because under the new guidelines, they had no grounds for banning it’s use as such, but they still banned it as a food additive.

        In 2012, they allow stevia byproducts to be used in coca cola and pepsi cola products called Truvia and Purevia. The FDA claimed that these products were legal because they were not pure stevia extracts, but highly purified chemical.

        On the FDA website, they claim that they will not allow the use of whole leaf stevia or crude stevia extracts because of the numerous health concerns involved in them, but they still refuse to comment on exactly what those concerns are, or give up the source of the information. They also refuse to comment on the several studies done that show that stevia has no major health concerns.

        It’s obvious that they are taking bribed from the artificia sweetener industry to keep it illegal.

        So you trust the FDA? LOL

        BOOM!

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:25 pm

        “It’s obvious that they are taking bribed from the artificia sweetener industry to keep it illegal” Yes…it’s obvious. To you anyway.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:23 pm

        Great example of the FDA failing to recognize a now well-established effectiveness of a holistic product. MRSA’s die 10-1,000 times more effectively when silver is combined with antibiotics. Links from 1999 don’t retroactively disprove studies from 2013… but you can just deny what doesn’t fit your pre-determined beliefs.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:27 pm

        Simply show us one peer reviewed clinical study on humans that suggest silver is safe and effective. Just one!

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 12, 2013 4:05 pm

        Myles… this keeps happening. You are clearly a smart guy. The request was for one peer reviewed clinical study on humans that suggests that silver is safe. It isn’t safe. Not one of your studies is on humans. I went through them and they are not on humans. They are on bacteria. It is impressive to see the impact that certain silver solutions can have in conjunction with antibiotics, especially in treating antibiotic resistant bacteria, but that doesn’t for a second suggest it is safe.
        What I find most odd about the use of silver, is that you guys seem obsessed with ‘toxins’. You see toxins everywhere. Mark is obsessed with getting his toxins out of his colon. Apparently his body doesn’t do a good enough job of this. In fact, it appears that none of you GP people think the body can expel these phantom toxins, yet here you are putting a known, persistent toxin into your system. Buying it and taking it on purpose… Heavy metals are actually one of the few real toxins that you guys fear…
        Here is a natural cures guy saying it clearly isn’t safe. He is even capable of citing relevant reports: http://www.cqs.com/silver.htm
        Or you could just listen to this genius… Why not follow him, he seems just as well educated as Mr. Lindsey:
        http://www.silverhealthinstitute.com/is-silver-a-heavy-metal/

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 6:07 pm

        Can you point me to where you determined that I am “obsessed with getting his toxins out of his colon.”

        I held you a bit above most on this blog… but here you are resorting to their tactics to make points that don’t hold water. I do take the cleanse with liquid cleanse every 30 days… but it is a dropper full and that is it… and nowhere did I post about that until now… LOL…

        Wow…

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 12, 2013 6:23 pm

        Here is where I figured you might be a bit obsessed about toxins in your colon.

        M.

        RN Nutrition Jul 12, 5:37 am

        Robert… I am asking that you find one naturopathic Doctor who thinks that we should leave toxins in our colon… just one… come on… I don’t believe you can do it. All you can do is point to physicians who have only 2-4 hours of nutrition under their belt. Show me a Doctor of Nutrition who doesn’t believe we should get toxins out of our system. It is quackery to think that we should leave them there… quackery I tell you!

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 6:33 pm

        LOL.. you took that and immediately went to “obsessed”? Especially since it was designed to flip the words around of the previous comment. This is what you guys do… you take stuff and flip it or exaggerate it to make your post… just like slavery in the Bible and other stuff.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 12, 2013 9:00 pm

        Those links are pretty good, Vaughan, but I don’t think you read this part correctly:

        ” [Silver] is treated by the body as a toxic metal, chelated and removed extremely slowly by proteins called metallothioneins. This removal process can easily be overwhelmed, leading to argyria.”

        First question, do you know what chelated means? Again, this is why I get upset when you want to trash real experts and pretend you can give really good scientific analyses of which products on the market are good and which are bogus.

        Anyway, point #1 (think this over before you respond): the body has an, admittedly slow, process to remove silver nanoparticles without them doing any damage to the body. So if you get sick and you take a tiny amount of so-called colloidal silver, your body can get rid of it without any damage. And even if you take it every day, if the rate of intake is lower than the rate of chelation and removal, it will not build up. This is what the Mayo Clinic and those other articles say as well. If you mega dose yourself, yes, you can probably do serious damage to your body (I would say definitely, but you don’t like it when I substitute my legitimate, knowledgeable opinion in place of peer-reviewed journal articles. I feel like you are ready to embrace unproven claims when they support your skepticism, and knee-jerk reject them when they do not). You can also cause permanent damage to yourself with huge doses of aspirin, vitamin C, benadryl, or iron supplements, but that doesn’t mean that they are snake oil or that people who sell them are dangerous liars and scam artists. Comprende?

        Point #2: If someone takes too much colloidal silver, consistently, for years, their skin will turn blue. This is a non-dangerous condition, with no serious damage to the body, again according to the Mayo Clinic and the FDA and others. At the point of skin turning blue, I would hope someone would realize they need to stop. But, as with all things in this world, someone at some point will probably hurt themselves. This is why we have the Darwin awards. How about we assign people some basic level of personal responsibility instead of blaming manufacturers of effective, generally safe products? Sounds crazy, right, the ridiculous opinion of a scam artist trying to hurt people to make money? This why we have warnings on hair dryers, my personal opinion is that such legal culture is stupid and personal responsibility should be given more emphasis.

        Point #3: Colloidal silver, in combination with antibiotics, kills MRSA. I am not sure if you are at all familiar with MRSA. It primarily has developed in humans, who are overprescribed antibiotics by a medical system gone awry. Within the human body, antibiotics and other anti-microbials have similar activity as they do outside the body. This is the basis for virtually all medical studies on anti-microbials, which have the format of studying the effects of these products outside the human body. Such results translate well into the human body. That’s how this kind of research works. Generally scientists do not test anti-microbials inside human bodies before they are proven effective, for many reasons I will not get into, but that you can educate yourself on this subject, on your own time.

        Point #4: Naturopaths have been claiming the effectiveness of colloidal silver against MRSA for a long time. It’s effectiveness was denied for a long time, as many of the links thrown around show. We know now, from peer-reviewed journal articles, that it is extremely effective against MRSA when used in combination with antibiotics. In other words, the FDA did not recognize the effectiveness even though it was true. Even big government agencies make mistakes. Even scientists get stuff wrong sometimes. And sometimes naturopaths stumble upon neutraceuticals that work (silver doesn’t fit under this label, but you get the drift) years before mainstream scientists verify it in peer-reviewed journal articles. Again, as I have said before, the issue is money, which you leave out of your analysis making me think you are not at all familiar with the tremendous costs involved with clinical studies. You act as if all supplements should be rigorously subjected to clinical trials, just like pharmaceutical drugs, before anyone tries them. For pharmaceuticals, which are dangerous and actually do kill people, and regularly incur class action lawsuits, such precaution makes sense. For herbs and roots and vitamins, it is prohibitively expensive in many cases. I would wholeheartedly support a government agency whose sole goal is to prove or disprove the efficacy of neutriceuticals. That would be the beginning of a revolution in healthcare and nutrition that would greatly reduce costs and build the system of nutrition-based preventative care that we so desperately need in this country.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 12, 2013 9:18 pm

        Dr. Gordon Pedersen got his degree at the University of Utah, just fyi, they are accredited.

        I still think Lindsey Duncan is awesome, regardless of where he got his degree, he knows vastly more about nutrition, health, and human body than any of you guys who want to trash him. However, I do grant that it would be more impressive if he had a doctorate from an accredited holistic naturopathic institution. The problem is, that doesn’t exist yet. The place he got his degrees was considered the foremost school in the field of holistic naturopathic medicine, even though it was not accredited. The school of the world being round was not accredited by flat-earthers, but that doesn’t mean anything today, does it? Food and nutrient based approaches to health and nutrition are key. Pharmaceuticals are bad for us and way overused, to the detriment of all. I will call him Dr. Lindsey until someone who actually understands nutrition on a molecular level has a solid conversation with me and makes solid, legitimate criticisms of his perspectives and products. Clearly that is not going to happen on this blog, unless one of you critics can find someone of appropriate caliber and get them to join in on the dialogue here.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 6:04 pm

        Thanks for posting Myles, although I am sure they won’t be read… just skimmed to look for the word human as opposed to dish… and you won’t get an apology here… but I do like the article in one of your links… it reads…

        Medical Bureaucrats Hide the #1 Cure for MRSA!

        Yet in spite of the growing human toll, the medical bureaucrats responsible for our health are suspiciously silent about the simple cure for this deadly disease, even though it has been well known among doctors and researchers for nearly 30 years.

        You’d figure the health authorities would be chomping at the bits to let the public know how to protect themselves, now that these deadly, antibiotic resistant super pathogens are spreading rapidly from the confines of hospitals and jails into the sanctity of children’s nurseries, daycare centers, nursing homes, public schools, colleges, sports facilities, gymnasiums, restaurants, malls, churches and other public places where people gather together regularly. But they are not.

        So what’s the problem?

        Criminalizing the Cure for MRSA!

        You see, instead of alerting the public to the cure for MRSA, the health authorities have instead waged a long, intractable warfare against it for the past 30 years. Indeed, the cure for MRSA was originally discovered by Dr. Robert O. Becker, M.D. during his groundbreaking research into “incurable” infections at Syracuse Medical University, way back in the 1970’s!

        Dr. Becker used the simple cure he had discovered to heal every “incurable” infection they brought to him, without fail. He even published the results of his research in peer-reviewed medical journals, knowing that what he had discovered would, quite literally, change the world.

        But instead of accolades, he received anonymity. His research was shunned. And his funding was cut off. To alert the world to his findings, he published two books in the 1980’s and early 1990’s – The Body Electric and Cross Currents – both of which went on to become NY Times and LA Times bestsellers.

        But since that time, the medical authorities have clamped down on information about the cure for MRSA. In fact, they have actually passed laws restricting information about it, even to the point of making it a criminal offense to tell the public about the cure for these deadly super-pathogens. It’s astonishing. Yet it’s absolutely true!

        You’ll learn more about Dr. Becker’s work and the FDA’s indefensible actions in just a moment. But first…
        So What Is This Forbidden Cure for MRSA?

        So what exactly is this cure for MRSA and other superpathogens? You already know the answer. It is silver.

        That’s right. Silver – which has been known a…

        Shows what the truly intelligent already know… government studies are bunk… physicians for the most part are in debt to pharmaceuticals… and people, especially those here, will believe whatever they read and repost it as true.

        Boom!

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 12:25 pm

        From Mayoclinic.com:

        My dad takes colloidal silver for his health, but is it safe?

        Answer
        from Brent A. Bauer, M.D. (Myles, I haven’t checked, but I think this guy is a REAL doctor)

        Colloidal silver isn’t considered safe or effective for any of the health claims manufacturers make. Silver has no known purpose in the body. Nor is it an essential mineral, as some sellers of silver products claim.

        Colloidal silver products are made of tiny silver particles suspended in a liquid — the same type of precious metal used in jewelry, dental fillings, silverware and other consumer goods. Colloidal silver products are usually marketed as dietary supplements that are taken by mouth. Colloidal silver products also come in forms to be injected or applied to the skin.

        Manufacturers of colloidal silver products often claim that they are cure-alls, boosting your immune system, fighting bacteria and viruses, and treating cancer, HIV/AIDS, shingles, herpes, eye ailments and prostatitis. However, no sound scientific studies to evaluate these health claims have been published in reputable medical journals. In fact, the Food and Drug Administration has taken action against some manufacturers of colloidal silver products for making unproven health claims.

        It’s not clear how much colloidal silver may be harmful, but it can build up in your body’s tissues over months or years. Most commonly, this results in argyria (ahr-JIR-e-uh), a blue-gray discoloration of your skin, eyes, internal organs, nails and gums. While argyria doesn’t pose a serious health problem, it can be a cosmetic concern because it doesn’t go away when you stop taking silver products.

        Rarely, excessive doses of colloidal silver can cause possibly irreversible serious health problems, including kidney damage and neurological problems such as seizures. Colloidal silver products may also interact with medications, including penicillamine, quinolone, tetracycline and thyroxine medications.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 12:43 pm

        “Clinical studies have shown Silver, which contains 40 mcgs of silver, supports the natural healthy flora balance and ecosystem of our bodies.”

        The above was cut and pasted from the Genesis Pure website. Where are those peer reviewed medical studies? Myles, so far the only one you could come up with was a medical study that used mice and petri dishes! THERE ARE NO CLINICAL STUDIES THAT SHOW SILVER SUPPORTS THE ‘NATURAL FLORA BALANCE AND ECOSYSTEM IN OUR BODIES’. WHAT A BUNCH OF BULL SHIT!

        GP says there are ‘studies’. That’s plural. Show me one human study! Just one!

        I hate liars and thieves. Duncan is both.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:30 pm

        Support The Health Freedom Protection Act – FDA and FTC Censorship robs the American people of health information indispensable to their exercise of freedom of choice. FDA and FTC Censorship benefits large drug companies by protecting them from competition and destroying innovation. The solution lies in a new law, one that will strip FDA and FTC of their censorship powers.

        Genesis PURE Silver uses Pure Silver Colloidal at 10 ppm which is a safe amount… safer than others.

        True Colloidal Silver
        True colloidal silver products are the least prevalent type of colloidal silver on the market due to high degree of manufacturing complexity and the resulting high cost of production.

        In true colloidal silver, the majority of the silver content is in the form of silver particles. True colloids will typically contain more than 50% particles (often 50 – 80%), while the balance (20% to 49%) will be silver ions. When referring to colloidal silver, the word colloid means silver particles.

        The two critical factors to look for in determining true colloids are the percentage of silver particles and the particle surface area.

        Of all the types of silver marketed as colloidal, true colloidal silver products have the highest particle surface area. High particle surface area is achieved by a high percentage of silver particles combined with very small sized particles. Of the three types of silver on the market, true silver colloids have the highest particle surface area relative to the total silver content. The ratio of particle surface area to total silver content indicates how efficiently the colloid is able to produce particle surface area which determines effectiveness. Higher conversion efficiencies are more desirable.

        The nanometer-sized particles in true silver colloids remain in colloidal suspension without requiring protein or other additives. It is the mutual repulsion of the particles created by the zeta potential charge that keeps the particles uniformly distributed in the colloid.

        Determining True Silver Colloids

        Because of the high concentration of silver particles, true silver colloids are never clear like water. True colloidal silver with a sufficient concentration of particles does not look like water because silver particles — even very small particles — block light from passing through, making the liquid appear darker.

        Dangers

        Due to the very low concentration of ionic silver and small particle size, true silver colloids do not cause argyria, a condition that causes the skin to turn blue-gray.

        List of True Colloidal Silver Products

        Click here for a partial list of true silver colloid products by brand name.

        Comparing Colloidal Silver Products

        Below you will find two tables comparing colloidal silver products. A couple of notes before you begin:

        The particle size distribution and zeta potential reports are in pdf format and require the Adobe Acrobat Reader to view. If you do not have the Acrobat Reader plug-in installed in your browser, you can download it free from the Adobe web site. Click on the Acrobat Icon below to obtain the Acrobat Reader free.
        In the tables below, a click on the product name will bring up the complete lab analysis for the products shown. The top part of the lab analysis page indicates the properties of the product according to the manufacturer. The bottom of the page contains the results of applying a standard suite of tests to determine the physical properties of the colloids. Not all tests can be performed on all the products. Specifically, the protein based products cannot be tested for zeta potential. See Determining Properties for technical details about how the laboratory analysis is performed.
        The tables below compare two critical metrics. Column 2 of first table compares particle surface area, which is the most important measure of effectiveness. The table is organized in ascending values of particle surface area. The second table evaluates metal content.
        The second table is arranged in ascending order of percent of labeled value by product grouping. Eventually, we hope to test all products that either claim to be colloidal silver or are colloidal silver.
        Comparison Table: Particle Surface Area

        The effectiveness of a colloid is predicated on particle surface area, therefore particle surface area is the single most important metric for comparing colloidal products. The Comparison Table below provides a detailed comparative analysis of products based on the particle surface area.

        In the booklet “Silver Colloids” Professor Ronald Gibbs wrote “The size of the particles in the colloidal silver suspensions we use for health purposes is very important. Particle size controls the surface area and therefore the effectiveness of the colloidal silver suspension.”

        In this context, effectiveness is defined as the ability of the colloid to interact with its environment , just as in the world of chemistry, where surface area determines how well substances react with one another. For a more complete discussion of the rationale for comparing colloidal silver products using particle surface areaas a single valued metric see: Comparing Colloidal Silver Products.

        Notes:

        Effectiveness of a colloid is determined by the particle surface area making it the single most important metric for comparing colloids.
        This table is presented in ascending order of particle surface area (column 2) to provide an easy means for direct comparison among the various properties associated with particle surface area. Data from the product reports is compiled into a table so the reader can compare products based on costs and particle surface area.
        Product Name: These are the colloidal silver products listed in the Product Reports. Click on the product name in the table below for the complete lab analysis.
        Particle Surface Area: In the table below, Column 2 (Particle Surface Area) provides the best means for a direct comparison of the various products. Column 2 (cm 2/mL) is particle surface area in square cm per mL from the Product Report.
        Efficiency Index: Column 3 Effective surface area per unit of concentration. Particle Surface Area (cm2/mL) per ppm X 1000. This value relates how efficiently surface area is generated per unit of concentration (ppm).
        Comparing Cost: Column 5 (Cents/cm2) is the Price in Cents per square cm of particle surface area.
        Column 7 (cm2/$) is square cm of particle surface area per dollar of cost.
        Comparing Quantity: Column 6 (Normalized mL) shows the quantity of the colloid in mL required to provide a constant particle surface area. The values are normalized.

        Click here for European Product Reports (US Reports Below)

        Product Name
        Click on product name for complete lab analysis report

        Particle Surface Area
        cm2/mL
        Efficiency
        Index
        Price
        Cents/mL
        Price
        Cents/cm2
        Normalized mL
        cm2/$
        Mesosilver 20
        104.7
        5235
        9.97
        0.0952
        1.0
        1050.4
        Utopia Advanced Col. Sil. 20
        34.24
        1577
        10.14
        0.2961
        3.06
        337.7
        Silver Wings 250 ppm
        25.22
        96.3
        22.82
        0.9048
        4.15
        110.5
        Innovative Natural Prod. 500
        12.39
        20.5
        33.77
        2.725
        8.45
        36.7
        Herbal Healer Col. Sil. 500 ppm
        2.513
        3.80
        30.43
        12.11
        41.66
        8.25
        Kelly Colloidal Silver 20
        1.420
        122
        6.34
        4.46
        73.7
        22.4
        Source Naturals Col. Silver 30
        0.881
        24.3
        13.94
        15.83
        118.8
        6.32
        Electra Clear Col. Sil. 10 ppm
        0.662
        25.1
        3.16
        4.77
        158.2
        20.9
        Int. Pharm. Invive 50 ppm
        0.621
        4.4
        7.61
        12.25
        168.6
        8.16
        Futurebiotics Adv. Col. Silver
        0.591
        61.6
        28.65
        48.48
        177.2
        2.06
        ASAP 22
        0.587
        26.3
        15.22
        25.92
        178.4
        3.85
        ACS 200 Adv. Cell. Sil. 200 ppm
        0.577
        9.55
        42.22
        73.17
        181.5
        1.37
        Argentyn 23 ppm
        0.355
        22.6
        20.12
        56.67
        294.9
        1.76
        High Energy Lab CS 15 ppm
        0.319
        15.1
        4.22
        13.22
        328
        7.56
        Vitol Super Col. Silver 5 ppm
        0.286
        54.6
        13.39
        46.82
        366
        2.14
        Ultra Pure Colloidal Silver 35
        0.225
        13.6
        7.80
        34.68
        465.3
        2.88
        Sovereign Silver 10
        0.217
        22.3
        25.36
        116.9
        482.5
        0.86
        New Silver Solution
        0.163
        11.3
        14.35
        88.04
        639.3
        1.14
        ASAP 10
        0.112
        10.2
        10.99
        98.11
        935
        1.02
        Wonder Water 10
        0.096
        9.6
        4.67
        48.60
        1,090
        2.06
        Silver Wain Water 3
        0.083
        34.2
        2.64
        31.8
        1,261
        3.14
        Daily Mfg. Col. Silver 20 ppm
        0.080
        3.8
        10.10
        126.3
        1,309
        0.79
        Silver Lightning 5
        0.078
        17
        1.05
        13.44
        1,342
        7.44
        SilverKare 30 ppm
        0.054
        1.86
        12.66
        234.3
        1,939
        0.43
        Tri Silver Colloidal Silver 10
        0.052
        5.5
        5.49
        105.6
        2,013
        0.95
        Silver Biotics 10
        0.035
        3.2
        11.39
        325.4
        2,991
        0.31
        Silver Shield Col. Silver
        0.027
        0.19
        6.34
        234.8
        3,878
        0.43
        home brewed w/ SG-7
        0.024
        1.64
        na
        na
        4,362
        na
        Trace Minerals Col. Silver 30
        0.022
        0.7
        7.08
        321.7
        4,759
        0.31
        Super Silver Solution 10 ppm
        0.0085
        1.16
        12.65
        1,331
        11,020
        0.07
        Oxysilver 3 ppm
        0.0085
        1.81
        20.88
        2,456
        12,317
        0.04
        Health & Herbs Col. Silver 10
        0.001
        5.9
        4.22
        4,216
        104,700
        0.024
        Higher values are better. Lower values are better.

        Notes:

        Col. 1 Product Name and concentration in parts-per-million (ppm) on label.
        Col. 2 Particle surface area= value from lab report.
        Col. 3 Efficiency Index = Divide column 2 by total ppm value from the lab report and multiply by 1000.
        Col. 4 Price Cents/mL = Divide product price ($/oz) by 29.5734 and multiply by 100.
        Col. 5 Price Cents/cm2 = Divide 1 by column 2 and multiply by column 4.
        Col. 6 mL of product required for a constant particle surface area.
        Normalized value is calculated by dividing the largest column 2 value (104.7) by column 2.
        Col. 7 cm2/$ = Divide 1 by column 5 and multiply by 100.

        Percent of Metal Content Table

        In the table below, the Metal Content indicates the accuracy of product labeling. A value of 100 percent means the label accurately describes the metal content of the product. Values near zero indicate that the product contains very little or none of the metal content indicated on the label.

        Values that are significantly above or below 100 (highlighted in red) indicate the manufacturers inability to adequately control the concentration (ppm) of the product. This could be the result of poor quality control or the lack of capability to measure concentration.

        Type
        Metal Content
        Product Name

        Percent of Labeled Value
        Click on product name for complete lab analysis report
        Ionic
        >>> 0.008 <<>> 0.03 <<>> 0.05 <<>> 0.09 <<>> 0.52 <<>> 1.7 <<>> These products contain little or no silver (less than 2% of labeled value). <<<

        Why are so many products shown in red?

        It seems clear that some companies are not properly measuring the silver concentration in their products. There is a common misconception that silver concentration can be determined by measuring the electrical conductivity. This erroneous belief is fostered by the companies that sell "colloidal silver" generators to the home hobbyists and also sell TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) meters that they claim can be calibrated to measure ionic silver content. TDS meters measure the electrical conductivity of the solution, not silver content. Any substance that increases the electrical conductivity will cause the TDS meter reading to increase. This may or may not have anything to do with the ionic silver concentration. The products shown above that contain little or no silver all have electrical conductivity values that indicate the presence of water soluble salts that would increase the TDS reading without silver being present. We speculate that these companies are relying on such measurements in an attempt to determine the silver content. Electrical conductivity cannot be used to determine silver concentration.

        Accurate determination of silver concentration requires the use of either an atomic absorption/emission spectrometer or a mass spectrometer. Most laboratories use either atomic absorption or atomic emission spectrometers because they are less expensive than a mass spectrometer (ICP/MS). The measured values reported on this web site were made using an atomic emission spectrometer, specifically an Inductively Coupled Plasma/Atomic Emission Spectrometer (ICP/AES). See Determining Properties for technical details about how the laboratory analysis is performed by CSL.

        When an FDA laboratory determines metal concentration they use either and ICP/AES or an ICP/MS whose readings will match very closely the values that are indicated on the lab analysis pages.

        Potentially dangerous ionic silver products – those containing nitric acid!

        Ionic silver products which have a low silver concentration while at the same time have high electrical conductivity will generally have a low pH value (acidic). These products will quite often be found to have a high nitrate (NO3) concentration as well. This unique set of properties generally indicates that the process used to produce the product involves arcing a high voltage AC current through the air to the surface of the water. Since air is 80% nitrogen, the high voltage arc through nitrogen produces nitrogen dioxide (NO2) which combines with the water (H2O) to form nitric acid (HNO3). This method is considered bogus in the extreme and produces a product that may contain significant amounts of nitric acid and is therefore potentially very dangerous to ingest. This ill advised process was developed experimentally in the early days of colloidal silver research and was adopted by some manufacturers who apparently did not have the requisite knowledge to understand that they were making nitric acid. Unfortunately, this method is still in use today by some producers who refuse to acknowledge that they are producing a potentially dangerous product.

        How to spot products that contain nitric acid

        When the total silver concentration (ppm) reported on the lab analysis page indicates a value that is far below the value on the product label, carefully read the lab analysis and look for the following:

        High values of electrical conductivity – ionic silver products that do not contain nitrate or some other form of contamination will typically have a conductivity reading expressed in micro-Siemens (uS/cm) that is approximately equal to the silver ion concentration in ppm. While not an accurate determination, a rule of thumb is, a 10 ppm product will have about 10 uS/cm of electrically conductivity. Interestingly, it is this rule of thumb that formed the belief that electrical conductivity could be used to measure ionic silver content. If the uS/cm value is significantly above the measured total silver concentration value, then it is safe to suspect that nitrate or some other form of contamination is present.
        Low pH values – pH values below 7 are acidic, values above 7 are basic and exactly 7.0 is neutral. Products containing nitrate (NO3) will be acidic and typically have values between 1 and 4. An acceptable pH value would generally be considered to be in the range of 6.5 to 7.5.
        No silver particles present – nitric acid will dissolve silver particles so no silver particles will be present in products that contain nitric acid.
        Presence of nitrate (NO3) – When a nitrate determination has been made for a given product the value of NO3 expressed in parts-per-million (ppm) of nitrate will be included on the lab analysis page.
        At the moment, not all lab analysis pages have nitrate test values shown. We plan to perform the nitrate tests on products that have positive indication for items 1 to 3 above. The nitrate test results will be added to lab analysis pages when they are completed.

        Notification of Results

        Each manufacturer whose product appears in the tables and reports on this web site has been notified by e-mail and provided with a link to the detailed laboratory analysis of their product. At time of notification the producer may dispute the findings of our laboratory with regard to the determination of the measured values. The lab personnel are more than willing to discuss the results of our analysis should any company whose products are reported here choose to take issue with our laboratory procedures, suitability of equipment used, calibration standards, or experience of the laboratory staff. Not a single lab analysis has been disputed as of this date.

        Not a single lab analysis has been disputed as of this date, and manufacturers cannot claim ignorance about the contents of the products they are selling.

        Recourse for Consumers

        Some of the products tested contain such a small fraction of the labeled value (see Metal Content chart above) that those products would generally be considered to have misleading and/or deceptive labeling by the Consumer Protection Department of various state governments. The sale of these mislabeled products is clearly a violation of the state consumer protection laws as well as a violation of the Federal Trade Commission regulations. If you have purchased one of these products, you might want to consider filing a complaint with the consumer protection department of the state where the manufacturer is located. You also might want to consider sending an e-mail to the producer and ask them why they continue to sell a product whose label misrepresents the contents of the bottle.

        Donate a product for testing – Products that are commercially produced and sold to the public may be donated by for testing; the test results will be published on this site. Products donated for lab analysis and inclusion in our reports must be in a new factory sealed bottle to avoid the possibility of contamination. The scientists at the Colloidal Science Laboratory, Inc. will perform a uniform set of analytical measurements and report the results in the standard format as shown on the Commercial Product Report pages of this site. The lab analysis is done on a time available basis by laboratory personnel. Products submitted for analysis will not be returned. Products for analysis can be submitted to this address.

        Related Information

        How to Compare Colloidal Silver Products
        Particle Surface Area and Effectiveness
        Bioavailability of Colloidal Silver
        The Truth About Ionic Silver
        Myth of Monatomic Colloidal Silver
        The Truth About TEM Images of Ionic Silver Solutions
        The Truth About Silver Protein Products
        The Truth About Colloid Particle Size
        Bogus Scientific Claims Made for Colloidal Silver Products
        Visit the Colloid Forum where users share information.
        Find colloidal silver products on the internet

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:33 pm

        Congratulations Mark Ketchum. You know how to cut and paste. Simply show me a peer reviewed clinical study (using humans, not mice and petri dishes) that suggests silver is safe and effective. Just one.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:37 pm

        I linked you more than one. If you have any self-respect or integrity, apologize for your mistake.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:44 pm

        I did not see a link. I respectfully request that you send the links again. If they are human, peer reviewed clinical studies, I will not hesitate to apologize.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:06 pm

        I thought we were innocent people who went to a presentation and were duped by MLM scammers. I am an RN… went to a presentation with my wife 6 months ago… signed on… making money… losing weight… more healthy…. off my Metoprolol, Glipizide, Prilosec… B/p normal for 4 months now… blood glucose now rarely rises above 130… heartburn for 20 years on Prilosec daily… now don’t take it and never a reflux problem…

        Our first week 420.00… second week 730… third week 1063.00… since then we have climbed in residual income from on average 200.00 / week to 600 – 700.00 / week on a regular basis, and it keeps slowly climbing.

        We are being duped… don’t you feel sorry for us? Shouldn’t you be giving us your shoulder to cry on because we were taken advantage of 6 months ago? Why are you so angry with us… after all, we fell into this MLM trap. I even had to quit my RN Director career to step down to a part time career as a field nurse working 4 hours / day. And my wife had to quit her job at the Church to spend more time on GP… up to 2 hours / daily. Please pray for us as we are being duped.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:16 pm

        Personally, I never suggested you were innocent. You are simply greedy, selling worthless snake oil to your friends and neighbors! Posting how much money you make by taking advantage of people hardly proves you point.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:32 pm

        But Fred… I was taken advantage of… I am still being duped… The people who got me into this are taking advantage of me and still duping me…

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 12, 2013 11:38 am

        Robert,
        I know all about colloidal silver, you could call me an expert. I would never recommend anyone take this stuff long-term. However, if you have an MRSA or some other extremely serious condition, it is OK to take it short-term.

        http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/06/19/bacterial-bling-adding-silver-to-antibiotics-boosts-effectiveness/

        You can ignore every time you get proven wrong and keep making those nasty comments, I can’t stop you. I hope eventually you become ashamed of yourself.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 12, 2013 12:03 pm

        It is my professional opinion as a scientist that silver nanoparticles should be banned from all commercial products EXCEPT as anti-bacterial solutions for human (and possibly animal) consumption. I do see that the GP solution is dilute enough that it can be taken everyday, but personally I would not recommend that to people. I looked up the dosage and safety and here is what the Mayoclinic says,
        http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/colloidal-silver/AN01682

        ” It’s not clear how much colloidal silver may be harmful, but it can build up in your body’s tissues over months or years. Most commonly, this results in argyria (ahr-JIR-e-uh), a blue-gray discoloration of your skin, eyes, internal organs, nails and gums. While argyria doesn’t pose a serious health problem, it can be a cosmetic concern because it doesn’t go away when you stop taking silver products.

        Rarely, excessive doses of colloidal silver can cause possibly irreversible serious health problems, including kidney damage and neurological problems such as seizures. Colloidal silver products may also interact with medications, including penicillamine, quinolone, tetracycline and thyroxine medications. ”

        For me, “Rarely, excessive doses of colloidal silver can cause possibly irreversible serious health problems” is enough for me to stay away from it. BUT YOU GUYS SHOULD ALL BE REQUIRING PEER REVIEWED JOURNAL ARTICLES BEFORE YOU BELIEVE THAT CLAIM. Right? It only says, “possibly”. If I had bold or italics or something I would have used that instead of caps, fyi.

        Clearly the FDA has studied this stuff for many years, so they must have data. Anyway, if your skin gets discolored you are taking too much, gross, but that “doesn’t pose a serious health problem.”

        So no, no one is dying, or even getting health issues from this stuff. If they take more than the recommended dose for 50 years, their skin might turn blue, that’s about it.

        Just for fun,

        http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/la902844r?journalCode=langd5

      • Robert permalink
        July 14, 2013 10:15 pm

        Myles,
        You are getting lost in the weeds and missing the point entirely. The very first sentence of the Mayo Clinic article you yourself cite states:

        “Colloidal silver isn’t considered safe or effective for any of the health claims manufacturers make. Silver has no known purpose in the body. Nor is it an essential mineral, as some sellers of silver products claim. ”

        Okay, stop right there and read that paragraph again.

        Colloidal silver isn’t considered safe or effective for any of the health claims manufacturers make. Did you catch that? Silver is not safe or effective for any of the health claims that silver manufacturers make. Not safe or effective. Not safe. Not effective. Get it? GenesisPURE is a colloidal silver manufacturer. The Mayo Clinic states it is not safe or effective for ANY of the claims GenesisPURE makes.

        Not safe or effective.

        Again, not safe or effective. Just want to make sure you are getting this. That’s all you need to know…GenesisPURE is selling a product that is neither safe nor effective for the health claims GenesisPURE makes.

        If they will lie and commit health fraud with one product, why wouldn’t they with their other products? The answer is of course they would! And do! Duncan is a liar and con artist and GP is a fraud. End of story. Case closed.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 14, 2013 11:36 pm

        I think Robert is bang on here. Isn’t that the crux of the issue. Things get worse for Genesis Pure and Lindsey Duncan though. Check this video out:

        Immune 6. This is the one missile he would launch, his one warrior in the war to fight cancer…

        Immune 6 contains Graviola.

        According to WebMD:

        Graviola is UNSAFE. It can kill nerve cells in the brain and other parts of the body. It may cause movement disorders similar to Parkinson’s disease.
        Special Precautions & Warnings:
        Pregnancy or breast-feeding: Do not use graviola. It is UNSAFE.

        Parkinson’s disease: Graviola might make the symptoms of Parkinson’s disease worse.

        According to Hoaxorfact.com regarding the claim that Gaviola is 10,000 times more effective than chemotherapy:

        GRAVIOLA AND CANCER

        The idea that Soursop can fight cancer effectively started after a research at Purdue University’s School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences. The research concluded that the active components of the tree are a unique phytochemical substances known as annonaceous acetogenins, which MAY have chemotherapeutic potential, especially with regard to multi drug-resistant cancer cells. But these tests were only confined to test tubes, no large scale clinical trials were conducted on humans to determine the safety and efficacy of Graviola for treating cancer. Therefore, there is no significant evidence to show that Soursop works as a cure for cancer.
        There is evidence indicating that the fruit’s extracts selectively inhibit the growth of human breast cancer cells by downregulating expression of epidermal growth factor receptor (EGFR) in vitro and in a mouse model, but the effect has not been studied in humans.
        POSSIBLE ADVERSE EFFECTS OF GRAVIOLA

        Studies show that use of Soursop can have certain adverse effects in some people, especially movement disorders and nerve damage that is similar to Parkinson’s disease, which is due to the very high concentration of annonacin. Graviola also has few other side effects like lowering the blood pressure, so it should not be taken by people with low blood pressure or heart complications. The antimicrobial properties of Soursop can also kill beneficial bacteria on the skin, in the vagina and gut, which can lead to infections in long term use.
        CONCLUSION

        Therefore, the message saying that Graviola, i.e Soursop is 10,000 times more effective cancer killer than chemo is a hoax. However, you can find thousands of websites online selling it as a miracle fruit. We advise people not to believe them blindly, but consult a doctor or oncologist before using it.
        Update: 22 Apr 2013
        We thank Mr. Kevin Kuin who has shared his mother’s Cancer experience through comments. Mr. Kevin Kuin said:
        Living in a farm village in Sarawak, my family grows many types of fruit trees including this Graviola tree. My late mother the only person in my family fond of them and we would keep them just for her. But she died of cancer in 1996 although she never stop eating this fruit until she was found to have cancer in 1995. I don’t mean to be negative here but will want to understand how this fruit will have prevented cancer from my late mother.

        actually, warnings are all over the internet, including warnings for taking it with antidepressants, taking it if you have any known cardiac issues and that prolonged taking of it can lead to yeast and fungal infections.

        This concern as well its known as being a cause of atypical Parkinson’s disease is why this toxicologist is warning everyone to be careful.

        Despite the warnings and concerns, and the lack of in vivo testing on cancer, this is the number one thing that Mr. Lindsey Duncan would use to fight cancer? Again, my arena of research resides in the weight loss claims of products, but being drawn into this debate about Genesis Pure, I just keep getting more and more concerned with the man and his claims. Actually, the video is driving me crazy because there are several videos of him from the same event hyping each and every product as a game changer and making that same mouth on hand, elbow in other hand look… It is really getting to me.

        Myles, what is your take on this product and the claims, versus the science? Robert, are there more products with safety concerns that we aren’t hearing about that we should make the public aware of?

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 15, 2013 2:07 am

        Vaughan, my take is that you should not read websites like hoaxorfact.com. Also, that story about the lady dying even though she ate Graviola, that’s an anecdote, and while lots of anecdotes compiled have weight, one single one does not have much. I know you know that because you say that whenever someone gives an anecdote about a nutriceutical working!!!!!!! Here is one good article about Graviola I found:

        http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304383512002145

        And this one about the toxicity:

        http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Suppliers2/Toxicology-expert-raises-alarm-over-potential-neurotoxins-in-graviola-soursop

        Dr. Lindsey’s product has Graviola extract, and I would bet money that he make sure that nasty little annonacin isn’t in his product. Or at least in minute quantities. He hasn’t let me down yet, but I don’t have time to prove whether or not this is the case. Maybe you can find it on the GP website and let me know. I need to get back to work so I won’t respond for a few days.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 15, 2013 10:53 pm

        Actually hoaxorfact.com and snopes.com are excellent sites. I highly recommend them. They do some good research.

        As for the anecdote, you are right. There is no reason to believe it.

        I don’t even know if it is possible to extract the annonacin, and it doesn’t appear as if anyone is doing that. Other people warn of the dangers of it though, even when recommending taking the stuff. I don’t see any warnings on the Genesis Pure site.

        http://www.raysahelian.com/graviola.html

        This guy, Ray Sahelian, M.D., even points out some of these issues (although he still appears to not have a problem selling it):

        My opinion
        Until human trials are done, it is difficult to make any recommendations with certainty. Does it work well when taken as a supplement? What is the ideal dosage? How often should it be taken and for how long? Does graviola have side effects that we are not aware of if taken daily for many months or years? These are questions that still need to be answered through rigorous research.

        My frustration with Lindsey Duncan is how he goes from a product that is interesting, but has no human research on it, to the number one tool he would use. Myles, you know full well that there are hundreds of compounds that have been found that have a positive effect when tested in vitro and in vivo in animal subjects, but don’t pan out for humans. This is the nature of testing, so it seems very irresponsible to make this jump. As well, not informing people of the potential side effects, even if rare, would indicate that Lindsey Duncan doesn’t even have a rudimentary grasp of the concept of informed consent, which is worrisome.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 15, 2013 11:32 pm

        I do not have a problem with Dr. Lindsey going beyond what has been proven in peer-reviewed journal articles. He has the experience and knowledge to make wise decisions. We return to this point somewhat frequently. If we found out in two years that Graviola is everything Dr. Lindsey has made it out to be, would you change your mind and consider your current misgivings to be a mistake? Or would you continue to dislike him and consider his methods inappropriate? Sometimes I think no matter how many times he was right, even if it was many times in a row, regarding the most important things he says and products he promotes, you would never give him any credit. From what I have seen, I personally think Graviola is stunning as an anti-cancer compound, we definitely need more research, but I would not refrain from treating myself with it, just because all of the money is poured into pharmaceuticals while non-patentable nutraceuticals receive very little funding and research.

        Honestly, let’s talk about what is truly horrible as a cancer treatment: chemotherapy. It is unquestionably damaging to the body, destroying healthy tissues, decreasing quality of life, sometimes killing the patient directly or leading to secondary infections. Hair falls out, appetite goes away, energy deteriorates, these are just a few of the symptoms. Given that his horrendous treatment is standard procedure in our society, the unproven possibility of Graviola leading to a rare form of Parkinson’s after years of steady consumption does not strike me as a reason why it should not be touted as a legitimate anti-cancer medicine. It is possible that it doesn’t work, I haven’t poured through the literature so I don’t know more than what I see just from glancing through. What I see looks very promising, which is also what that doctor you linked me to described it as. One person who I am certain has read the literature, however, is none other than the despised Dr. Lindsey Duncan.

        With that said, I agree with the cautious recommendation of taking regular periods off from Graviola consumption. And personally, I would only take Immune 6 when my immune system needed a boost. If I had a suppressed immune system or something like that, that is the only reason I would take it consistently long-term. From what I read in my brief glancing at articles, it looked like the only people who ever had a significant increase in parkinson’s type diseases were people who ate those fruits as a main part of their diet for decades. Whatever the concentration is in Immune 6, I highly doubt it is even remotely dangerous, but admittedly I really don’t know because I haven’t done my research.

        I think your criticism of Graviola is missing the important observation that chemotherapy consistently damages people – severely – and often fails to prevent them from dying. And it’s insanely expensive compared to this fruit and Dr. Lindsey’s Immune 6 formulation. My step-mom of 25 years died of cancer 7 months ago (I was thinking the other day this is probably why I was vitriolic in my first comments on your website and why I still get a bit that way some times). You can bet if I had known about Genesis Pure one or two years ago, I would have bought her noni, acai, mangosteen, goji, Immune-6, liquid multivitamins, herb/root cleanse, go-yin, and whatever else she wanted. She definitely would have wanted these products, she just didn’t know about them, one of the last times I saw her was when she visited a naturopath in my city. He didn’t really have anything awesome for her, she told me. GP’s cancer support products are all just food, not toxic chemicals designed to kill tissue. She quit chemotherapy because it was so brutal she couldn’t take it and decided she wanted to enjoy her time on Earth even if it was shorter without the horror of chemotherapy. For anyone with cancer, a remote chance of a rare form of Parkinson’s is the last of their concerns.

        Of course, I wanted her to keep doing chemotherapy, maybe that was selfish of me. I would never tell someone not to do chemotherapy (although I understand why other people do recommend avoiding it at all costs and trying everything else first, especially holistic food-based approaches), but I would certainly recommend that while they are suffering through that, they pump themselves full of whole-foods nutrients, anti-cancer compounds, and superfruits.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 15, 2013 11:54 pm

        Hey, Myles on this point we agree. If I was diagnosed with Cancer, I would do whatever the doctors recommended and if they didn’t object, I would hit the Graviola like it was going out of style.
        Chemotherapy is brutal, and it really is a case of killing the human but hopefully killing the cancer first. But medically it is currently our most powerful weapon. I am sure there are thousands of doctors that wish we had better methods and work day and night to develop them. I have met a bunch of oncologists over the years, mostly at cancer fundraising events, and they appear to be honest, intelligent individuals who truly care about curing cancer.
        Still, it is unfortunate that our most powerful weapon is so damaging and to some, it is a terrible choice to have to make.
        As well, taking supplements when you are sick and old, may very well be very good advice.
        That said, again, Lindsey Duncan is selling me another product that I am supposed to take every day. http://www.genesispure.com/product/immune6.php
        I am young (relatively, don’ t ask my kids though) and I am fit and healthy. My immune system is fine. At the least, taking this product is probably useless for me.
        As for whether Lindsey Duncan is right or not with some of his products, he probably is, but he recommends so many things… too many for anyone to take realistically. Most of them I am willing to bet are useless, some might have some value in certain situations. That is the things with the witchdoctory he performs. There are kernels of truth to most of these products. They have some positive results in early testing. He isn’t recommending Ginko or St. John’s Wart.
        His shotgun effect will hit some targets, but overall, the methods he uses are inherently flawed and irresponsible.
        I can say with tremendous certainty that taking green coffee beans without changing your lifestyle to one of exercising and eating well will not have an appreciable impact on weight loss. Lindsey Duncan kept hitting home the point that the people in the study did nothing to change their habits and they lost weight. True, Lindsey Duncan is a big fan of eating a very healthy diet and exercising, and he tells people to do that as well, but he is selling the Coffee Beans as a quick fix and he has made a fortune doing that. If people just ate well and exercised, they wouldn’t need a quick fix.
        Finally, I understand the cost of clinical studies and the problem with the inability to patent results with products that are made up of GRAS ingredients, but there are a few things.
        First, the government doesn’t require safety testing so that reduces the cost massively. Second, as I have discovered in looking into many of these products, there are tons of patents in place for specific formulations including Peperine (or something like that) and Silversol. By patenting the formulation and then testing them, you would have a huge competitive advantage. Third, even without the patent, there is tremendous money to be made in being first to market with a product with actual clinical evidence. Think of Lindsey Duncan and Green Coffee Beans. Fourth and finally, the market for supplements is MASSIVE. There is literally a fortune to be made. For the sake of the understanding of alternate modalities of healing, those who are making a killing in this business have a moral obligation to fund some research. They should be paying to back up people like you who have faith and see possibilities and connections and are willing to follow them a little further, If some of these products work, and although I am a skeptic, I am sure some of them do, the people profiting from them owe it to the body of human research to pay to expand our knowledge!

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 16, 2013 12:42 am

        And I am sorry to hear about your step-mom. Cancer is a brutal thing.

      • Robert permalink
        July 15, 2013 9:40 am

        Sadly these products are unregulated. I’m not sure most people know that. I think people take these products because they falsely assume they are safe and effective for the health benefits claimed on the bottle or website. They falsely assume the products wouldn’t be on the market for sale if they weren’t proven safe. That’s just simply wrong.

        In reality, anybody can put anything in a bottle and sell it with a proclaimed health benefit. I could take grass clippings from my mower, bottle it, and sell it as a cure for the common cold and nobody could stop me so long as I put the small little disclaimer “this product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease”.

        So yes, in a way, it is up to individuals like us to get together and say “hey wait, these products have not been tested, their claims have not been proven, and some may be potentially dangerous” in the hopes that somone considering consuming them will come across this information online.

        It does bother me, and should bother everyone, that GenesisPURE has purchased up all the “scam”-related URLs in an effort to censor and manipulate the information the free exhange of information about the safety and effectiveness of its products.

        I know a lot (and I mean A LOT) of GenesisPURE members, and most all say something to the effect of “Well, I researched it online and everything I found was positive about the company and the products so I decided to join”…..little do they know that is by design. The fraud just doesn’t stop with this company. It’s not just with the founder, and the company, and the products, it even goes to how people access information about the company.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 15, 2013 11:32 pm

        I always think that is a sign of a scam site by the way. If they buy up all of the scam websites and fill them in with their own sites. Typically affiliates do this for most products as they get great conversion rates and a lot of traffic, but in this case it appears as though the company did it themselves, which is quite simply very, very low and points to more ethical problems. I still haven’t heard anyone defend Lindsey Duncan for selling his products under other names that he is recommending yet not disclosing his relationship with. Honestly, disgusting!

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 15, 2013 11:41 pm

        Vaughan, imagine how that would go. Hi, I’m going to talk to you about GCB and, full disclosure, I own five GCB companies and my wife owns two and my best friend owns three. That would sound pretty ridiculous, wouldn’t it? Maybe he should have done it anyway, I don’t think it is nearly as huge of a deal as you make it out to be. He admitted he sells it and has a stake in it, and on the list of companies who sell good GCB products he included companies he doesn’t own, right? Telling people to buy the dosage he sells is also not a huge moral failing, in my book. More cunning than dishonest I would say. He didn’t give a completely full disclosure, that’s a fair criticism, and lying by omission is still lying, so he should have just said he is involved with a number of companies including genesis today or something like that, but he also didn’t deny his financial stake in people using the product.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 16, 2013 12:40 am

        Actually, no. He didn’t include companies he didn’t own. He admitted to owning one, and suggested another one as well. When I did the research it turns out, he owns that one too and he never has disclosed this fact.
        The dosage thing is more cunning then dishonest I would agree, although in videos you see him catch himself and actually say the dosage in the study was 800 mg, which is literally dishonest.
        And you are right, not disclosing that he is recommending you buy the product from him (especially when he discloses it in one of the 2 companies) is still lying. He should have come clean and he still can, but he refuses to. I can’t respect that. If finances are going to cloud his integrity like that, I have to wonder what other financial decisions are outweighing proper advice.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 15, 2013 1:50 am

        That paragraph is directly contradicted by newer, better research, which I cited multiple times. When combined with antibiotics it kills MRSA, at dosages which are safe in the human body. Doesn’t matter how many times you keep repeating the same untrue paragraph. And you still ignore the paragraph which says it is only dangerous in extremely rare cases of overdose, and other than that just causes skin discoloration.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:00 pm

        Robert… you need to post to the national enquirer as your posts are for the most part ignorant. I don’ t want to be mean, but you are horrible at this. You go looking for physician or physician websites that don’t like the use of Silver and post their claims as fact. And then you label what you find as “silver colloid is the most dangerous product by GP out there”.

        What?

        I could understand if you said, “Silver colloid could be a concern”… but no, you jump to “the most dangerous out there.” Especially since there are numerous studies and physicians that support the use of Silver for its anti-infective use.

        As a nurse, I often use Silver in wound dressings as prescribed by physicians to prevent the formation of bacteria in the wound… however, I had never heard of Silver being used orally. So I looked it up before I would support it.

        http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/02/07/new-guidelines-released-for-safe-usage-of-colloidal-silver-supplements.aspx

        Silver Colloid is the safest use of Silver… not the most dangerous.

        If used in the right amounts it presents no danger and has numerous benefits.

        Anything used in the wrong amounts can be dangerous and have adverse effects… including table salt. I am writing a letter to Morton’s about their dangerous product “salt”.

        When you realize that physicians in general don’t like natural remedies, you will start to appreciate the fact that you cannot always rely on their presumptions as fact. Please, stop this.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 8:00 am

        Oh, crap. Masturbation causes blindness? No wonder I’m so near sighted!

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 12:41 pm

        To anybody visiting here… after that last comment… are these the types of people you want to take advice from?

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 12, 2013 4:07 pm

        Yes Mark, apparently a grown man making a joke about masturbation is enough to make people run for the hills or not take advice from him… Please grow up!

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 6:08 pm

        The first part of your comment is correct… the second part is laughable… I didn’t make the joke you did… who needs to grow up? A grown man making masterbation jokes.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 11, 2013 4:00 pm

        You guys will say anything. I am surprised you haven’t started a scam MLM by now… you are so good in fake research and condemnation of others… that’s what it takes to run a scam MLM. Stay away from the real MLMs and quit saying that there aren’t things that there are.

        http://www.genesispure.com/lib/product_use_guide.pdf

      • July 11, 2013 1:12 pm

        “That’s not exactly correct. In the case of children, health decisions are usually in the hands of the parents. This is where GP is truely dangerous. My friend has several very young children that she forces to take GP products – including GCB. We’re talking about children as young as 3 years old. That should be illegal – but sadly it’s not.”

        I find this statement disturbing and it points to a deep seeded bias against GP.I don’t know what this company did to you, but you need to let it go.

        You start by saying health decisions are in the hands of the parent… and then go on to say that GP is dangerous. I would conclude from your statement that those parents are dangerous, not GP. Those same parents could give their 3 year old an adult dose of cough syrup… are you holding the pharmaceutical company to the same fire?

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 8, 2013 7:56 pm

        Perfect. You said it much better than I could.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 8, 2013 8:13 pm

        Hey, if he had a doctorate in English, I wouldn’t be complaining (insisting on using the ‘Dr’ title would be VERY tacky however). Be that as it may, he doesn’t even have an undergraduate degree! Can’t you see the difference? GIVE ME A FRICKIN BRAKE!

      • July 9, 2013 6:05 am

        A brake? Why would you ask for a brake?

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 9, 2013 6:59 am

        That’s all you have Mark? You’re correcting my spelling?

      • July 9, 2013 7:07 am

        Of course that is not all that I have… been posting for a while… feel free to browse. Boom!

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 7, 2013 2:47 pm

        Robert, you are just flat-out wrong. If you didn’t have a friend as a top rep I might be able to understand your lack of knowledge. There is a clinical trial of Go-Yin that is evidence of exactly what you are saying doesn’t exist. If you were paying attention and thinking clearly, you would know that already, especially given your friend’s success with the company.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 8, 2013 1:02 am

        Myles, can you send me a link to the clinical trial you are talking about?

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 8, 2013 1:37 am

        Yes, I can. If I do, and it shows that a placebo-controlled clinical trial demonstrates that Go-Yin actually helps people’s mood states, will you apologize to me directly and also to Lindsey Duncan? I don’t want to link it if it’s not going to accomplish anything. Just a small apology, about this one issue. We can build from there.

      • Robert permalink
        July 8, 2013 8:28 am

        Allow me Myles….

        Here is the link:
        http://www.genesispure.com/product/validation.php

        Here is the conclusion:
        These results suggest that daily TAM consumption is associated with improvements in subjective perceptions of mood, energy, tension, and fatigue – and provide support for the historical use of this TAM formulation in traditional Asian medicine. Additional studies of TAM supplementation are warranted to determine effects in other subject populations and to elucidate the mechanisms underlying such effects (e.g. antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, anxiolytic, etc).

        Here is the disclaimer:
        This study was funded by the distributor of a TAM-containing juice (GoYin) and S. Talbott serves as a paid scientific advisor to the company.

        It’s makes a non-scientific conclusion about “subjective perception”, its not peer-reviewed, it’s performed by a paid employee of GenesisPURE and funded by a maker of Go-Yin, in short…..it’s a joke. No apology to the con artist necessary.

      • July 8, 2013 6:03 pm

        So what you are saying… let me get this right… is that because Dr. Lindsey Duncan wanted a study done, so he paid to have it done… and he paid a trusted advisor to do it… that it is not a true study?

        “It’s makes a non-scientific conclusion about “subjective perception”, its not peer-reviewed, it’s performed by a paid employee of GenesisPURE and funded by a maker of Go-Yin, in short…..it’s a joke. No apology to the con artist necessary.”

        LOL… your conclusions are laughable.

        How did you arrive at “non-scientific”? Because there is a relationship between the people who wanted the study done and the people who did it?

        It was a study performed by…

        SupplementWatch, Inc. is a privately held corporation consisting of a growing network of scientists, physiologists, nutritionists and other health professionals dedicated to educating people about the pros and cons of dietary supplementation. The SupplementWatch™ service was started in 1999 in response to the growing public confusion surrounding nutrition in general and dietary supplements in particular. Our aim is try to clear up some of the confusion surrounding dietary supplements and provide visitors to our site with timely, relevant and balanced advice to help them make informed decisions.

        Each of the components of the SupplementWatch™ service is designed to provide useful information in a format that is convenient and easy to understand. Every month, our staff reviews thousands of scientific papers, research abstracts and medical journals in order to provide the most comprehensive and up-to-date information concerning dietary supplements.

        Supplements Library and Supplement Categories: Unlike other sources of information on dietary supplements, our service makes this information useful to consumers by providing a summary of all the relevant data on a particular supplement ingredient into a 1-2 page document. This information is compiled both alphabetically and categorically, so visitors to the web site can look up a particular supplement by name (e.g. “Ginseneg”) or by the category in which it has effects (e.g. “Energy”).

        Just because GP funded the study, doesn’t mean the institution performing the study was non-scientific. A logical conclusion would be that GP wanted a good study done and has a paid scientific advisor that works for Supplement Watch. A rigid study was performed and here are the results.

      • Robert permalink
        July 8, 2013 6:36 pm

        Let me try to break this down for you in as simple terms as possible so that maybe you can understand it.

        #1. “Just because GP funded the study…..”

        Wrong. You are absolutely wrong. The study WAS NOT funded by GenesisPURE. The study was funded by the distributor that sells the juice used in Go-Yin (read the disclosure statement again). Do you not understand how this establishes a major conflict of interest? If not, I will give you an example: You can find literally dozens of studies that show that cigarette smoking DOES NOT cause cancer —- they’re all funded by Philip-Morris USA and RJ Reynolds — which is why no one takes these studies seriously. This is also why we should take your study seriously. It is contaminated by a substantial conflict of interest.

        #2. “How did you arrive at “non-scientific”? ”

        Because it’s conclusion is…and I quote:

        “These results suggest that daily TAM consumption is associated with improvements in subjective perceptions of mood, energy, tension, and fatigue.”

        Do you know what “subjective perceptions” means? If so, please explain how the improvement in a subjective perception is science? I could have a “subjective perception” that green Jolly Ranchers make my farts smell like apples. Does that mean they actually do? Of course not! That’s why this study is so ridiculous! Even by its own biased standards it admits the improvements found are nothing more than “subjective perceptions”

        #3. “A logical conclusion would be that GP wanted a good study done and has a paid scientific advisor that works for Supplement Watch”

        Wrong. That would not be a logical conclusion. A logical conclusion would be out of the literally thousands of indepedent licensed clincians who could have performed this study why did GenesisPURE select one who also happens to be a paid employee of GP? That would be the logical conclusion! GP could have selected a dozen different clinics whose scientists WERE NOT already existing paid advisors to GP to perform the study…why didn’t they???

        This study has a fine print disclosure statement at the bottom of it. That’s really all you need to know. Do you know what a disclosure statement is? Disclosure statements disclose conflicts of interest. Do you know what conflicts of interest are? Conflicts of interest, loosely translated mean “forget everything you read in this study because it is highly biased”.

        You do not find “disclosure statements” with legitmate medical research or printed on legitmate clinical trials. Legitimate clinical trials are peer-reviewed, published in reputable medical journals, and certainly DO NOT have disclosure statements! Pfffttt!

      • Dakota R. permalink
        July 8, 2013 7:04 pm

        Mark,

        Your ignorance truly is baffling. Your entire comment is a lift from the bodybuilding.com forums. I am a member there. You’re a fool to think I didn’t see that post during my research, or explore it further. Search through “SweetSweatTV”s posts yourself and you will see that EVERY SINGLE POST has something to do with Moomiyo. In his signature, and throughout his BB.com posts he links URLs to purchase this “mystical” substance in the same way GP instructs their IBO’s to do. He obviously has a financial stake in Moomiyo and a distributor and is a shill just like you are. If you don’t believe me go back and read his 27 posts, they’re all just advertisements for this product.

        This also basically proves NOTHING. You took a copy and paste from ANOTHER Moomiyo shill and pasted it here. Obviously, it will make the product “sound good.” I never used keywords to single out bad reviews of Moomiyo. I Googled the name of the product and learned of it’s apparent ineffectiveness. You are the one who hasn’t done research here.

        And if you note the quotes in my original comment you’ll see those Russian studies you refer to have been heavily discredited. Nothing substantial has been clinically proven in the States or elsewhere, specifically in this current medical century. I broke down the labels in Moomiyo AND e2 from GP and they’re worthless. You never even addressed these aspects of my comment. You never addressed anything worth talking about. You copy and pasted a shill’s post on a bodybuilding forum that I was already well aware of and called it good. A long post with a bunch of outdated, debunked foreign studies and an advertised spiel in a fitness forum discounts absolutely nothing I provided with proven, modern studies, FACTUAL evidence of the effectiveness of the nutrients and amino acids in the products, and a straight down the middle opportunity to uncover POSITIVE studies of the Moomiyo. None were found.

        The e2 speaks for itself. If somebody with half a brain and any strain of nutritional knowledge can see straight through the crap in the e2 energy. You didn’t even acknowledge the over TWICE over the recommended dosage of B-12 in the mix, or the inessential amino acids that do nothing for us. It’s pure crap, and so is your rebuttal. LOL at you trying to pass off some shill’s post for your own. First it was Robert Crenshaw, now it’s copying and pasting?

        I’m done bantering back and forth with you. It’s painfully obvious that you don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to nutrition. All you know is GP and how it works, and that’s fine. All I’m telling you is the products are bullshit, overpriced, and a waste of time. If you want to continue selling them to friends, family, and likewise in order to raise your income through GP, by all means. I don’t care about your pyramid scheme agenda. I’m just here to provide facts on the nutritional effectiveness of these products. I mean, L Glutamine? LOL.

      • July 8, 2013 7:11 pm

        What? Read my first paragraph. I stated that if you go looking for support you will find it and then I posted the first thing I found… the first website that popped up. Don’t play like you were being deceived. And we are tired of you parlaying everything pro as a shill. You are a shill for everything anti GP. Who cares if he supports Moomyio Extract… he probably does so because he likes the stuff and is posting the resources to why he likes the stuff and why it works. Grow up.

      • July 8, 2013 7:13 pm

        Oh and your statement that those studies have been heavily discredited are false. Boom!

      • July 8, 2013 7:35 pm

        So what you are saying is that all of the studies funded by environmental groups to find out what is hurting the environment are bunk because the environmental groups have an interest in the findings? I got it.

        So all of the studies funded by the government because they wanted to prove to the public that global warming is evident and happening are bunk because the government had an interest in the findings? OK

        So all of the studies that the cancer society funds via donations and fund raisers… all of the studies that the Alzheimer’s groups fund via donations are all bunk as well because they have an interest in the findings?

        Now your logic would be better served had you said, “there could be a conflict of interest”… but to adamantly state that there is is false and misleading. Almost every study that has ever been done has been funded by somebody with an interest in the findings, whether it be monetarily or for reputation or knowledge. Knowledge is very rare, as most people are motivated by money, power, or reputation. And just because a juice manufacturer believes in his product enough to fund a study that may or may not show good news… does not make the study bunk.

        Boom!

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 8, 2013 7:41 pm

        Mark…look up ‘peer reviewed’.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 8, 2013 12:56 am

        The blogger who runs this column never responded to my lengthy and detailed health discussion above. Any of you guys attacking Ketchum are welcome to step in for the landscaper and respond to me above. I doubt any of you have any real understanding of health and nutriceuticals.

        I actually just didn’t comment back because I felt that your comment was way too full of vitriol, and really there is no need for that here:

        “…clearly beyond your knowledge…That is lazy and shameful…Your paragraph on probiotics is unscientific, illogical, and ignorant… I would not call you a con-artist but… OK, yes I would…Either you are incredibly lazy, or just completely lacking in resourcefulness and intelligence…”

        In any case, I am not sure why you would want to hear my response given your opinion of my research and opinions, but you have asked.

        #1. The value of knowing your relationship to Mr. Lindsey.

        “You would like to simply link me to Dr. Lindsey so that you can discredit me without actually addressing the points I make and the references I link.”

        I actually wanted to know your background so I could analyze your responses in context. Now that I know you are a member of the GP family, I know where you are coming from. It doesn’t discredit you in any way, as you are probably a member because you believe in these products. It does let me know though that you have a financial stake in Mr. Lindsey not coming off as a con artist and a scammer. I can understand that, and I can also now understand why you seem to angry at me, given that context.

        #2. Probiotics

        Your paragraph on probiotics is unscientific, illogical, and ignorant. First you say that you, “don’t doubt for a second the connection with gut microbiology and health and weight management,” then you go on to say that your requirement for accepting the usefulness of Dr. Lindsey’s probiotic is a study whose conclusion is that, “‘The probiotic that Dr. Duncan recommends has an impact on gut microbiota composition related to body weight loss.'”

        It really is quite simple. There is a tremendous amount of buzz around taking probiotics and health and weight loss. Some strains of probiotics have been shown in some studies to have a positive impact on weight loss while others have had the opposite impact. The studies are quite new and there isn’t a lot of information known. We do know that the flora and fauna in your gut is important to your health (from wikipedia):

        Research suggests that the relationship between gut flora and humans is not merely commensal (a non-harmful coexistence), but rather a mutualistic relationship.[4] Though people can survive without gut flora,[5] the microorganisms perform a host of useful functions, such as fermenting unused energy substrates, training the immune system, preventing growth of harmful, pathogenic bacteria,[3] regulating the development of the gut, producing vitamins for the host[citation needed] (such as biotin and vitamin K), and producing hormones to direct the host to store fats. However, in certain conditions, some species are thought to be capable of causing disease by producing infection or increasing cancer risk for the host.[3][9]

        and we do know there is a relationship with this flora and fauna and weight gain/loss (again wikipedia):

        Weight loss initiates a shift in the bacteria phyla that compose gut flora. Specifically, Bacteroidetes increase nearly linearly as weight loss progresses.[47] While there is a high level of variation in bacteria species found among individual people, this trend is prominent and distinct in humans.[48]

        But knowing all of this does not prove that pouring probiotics into your intestines will necessarily change the composition of your intestines microbiology in such a way as to promote weight loss. It may, but it may not. The fact is, your gut may create the environment in which the probiotics live and pouring all of the probiotics in the world into a hostile environment may have no impact on the organisms that are currently surviving there. As well, what strains of probiotic are we talking about. Many companies have their own patented strains that they say are the best. What strain is Genesis Pure selling? I have checked their promotional materials and I cannot find where they state the strain(s) that they are selling us. Without knowing the strain, how can I know if there is any scientific research to back the claims of weight loss up.

        If a doctor tells me that vitamin D supplements are a good idea, that doesn’t mean that I need a peer-reviewed journal stating that brand x vitamin D supplements have been proven effective. It’s the same with bacterial cultures. A live cell of Lactobacillus Rhamnosus is going to be almost exactly the same whether you get it from Dr. Lindsey or somewhere else.

        So what strain am I getting from Mr. Lindsey first, and second, where are the studies that support that strains impact on health and weight loss?

        Here is a quick article that sums up the issue quite well: http://www.prevention.com/weight-loss/weight-loss-tips/probiotics-and-weight-loss

        #3. Cell Water

        Yes, apparently cell water is just a mineral supplement. From this, from a proprietary trace mineral blend, they come up with the following claims:

        Water is the key to life, health and vitality. Genesis PURE™ Cell Water has the ability to pass freely through cell walls, delivering oxygen, nutrients, and enzymes, while helping to remove toxic buildup that accumulates in your cells. It enables your body to hydrate more efficiently, it supports healthier cells, tissues and organs, and helps control some of the destructive processes of aging. Cell Water magnifies the effects of other Genesis PURE supplements and aids in increasing energy and overall health.*

        I don’t even understand how these claims can be made of minerals dissolved in water. They say the cell water is oxygenated as well, as if adding 10 – 20 drops of oxygenated water into a glass of water would ever have any meaningful effect.

        They don’t even tell me the minerals I am going to be getting from this water… There are upper limits for many minerals that can cause negative impacts when consumed above this level. Is anyone at risk of getting too much zinc for example if their diet is also high in zinc? Are there only minor minerals in this drink and not major minerals? Am I going to get my required amount of selenium by taking this water or not?

        You say that minerals in liquid form may be more bioavailable. Okay, but are they? Really, would I not be better off taking Centrum here if I was worried about my mineral intake?

        #4. When Mr. Duncan started recommending Green Coffee Beans

        You claim that, “Lindsey Duncan didn’t start recommending green coffee beans until a questionably small study came out.” You are so used to making unjustified claims that you just throw them out like pieces of candy at a parade. Do you have any idea when he first started recommending green coffee beans for weight loss or did you just make that up?

        Actually I think it was something he said, but I cannot find any record of him recommending green coffee beans before the study that he was hyping on Dr. Oz came out. That study was the first human study that found any impact of Green Coffee Beans on weight loss. I may not be able to prove that he never told people about the benefits of green coffee beans before the study, but if this was something he was promoting before then, it would be easy I would think for you to find proof that he was. I can’t find any of his YouTube videos that were posted before the study and in fact all of them mention the study, nor any mention of Lindsey Duncan hyping it before 2012. Can you? The thing is, I wouldn’t expect him to. He discovered or heard this study. Probably doing his research, as he probably should be, and in so doing, thought the supplement was worthy or manufacturing, setting up phantom companies and promoting it through every possible avenue. Most of us would have just thought it was now worthy of some additional independent research… not Mr. Lindsey.

        #5. Science and Industry

        Mark V: You say you are a scientist, but you seem to think that studies following proper scientific methods are unnecessary?”
        Myles: I say I am a scientist… jeez. Let me explain how science works in combination with industry. First, a scientist develops a hypothesis (‘green coffee beans help people lose weight’ or, ‘Rhodium metal increases the rate of hydrogenation’). Next, he tests that hypothesis. If it works, the scientist has some choices to make. He could publish his findings in a peer-reviewed journal and further his reputation as a good academic researcher. Or, he could patent his technology if it is novel enough. The last option is that he could just keep the information proprietary, and use it in a private company.

        I see where you are going with this. You are suggesting that as a business man and not a scientist, Mr. Lindsey is keeping all or much of his knowledge proprietary so as to profit from it, rather than as a scientist, share it with the world to increase the knowledge base. Okay, fine, but then don’t expect me to drink the cool aid. If the products that are being sold by Mr. Lindsey and the Genesis teams are going to be based upon private research that is not going to be shared with the world, fine, but without the research, I am not going to believe him. He got his sham degree from a defunct college where it is illegal to use that degree within the state it is given out. Even if he keeps his products proprietary, he can still do studies to prove the efficacy of the claims. That is done all the time. Even in your example, they probably report on the efficiency of the plant, quite possibly having that efficiency certified without having to disclose how they do it.

        As for their being plenty of scientific evidence that green coffee beans work, I would not agree. There is very little evidence, but there is some. I think that more research is needed, but I do think this is an area where some more research may be warranted. There was probably more research done into African Mango by the way, and I didn’t have near as much faith in it having any efficacy.

        #6. My disdain for nutrition-based healing is a red flag indicating my inadequate knowledge of human health and wellness.

        Okay… I am not sure if I would agree with this at all. I actually have a massive disdain for buying nutrition out of a bottle and suggesting that will heal you. I actually have promoted and still, strongly promote eating a healthy diet as the number one way that I can think of for health. That and getting plenty of exercise. I just don’t think for a second you can buy any of this in a bottle. So I do have nothing but disdain for the industry that Genesis Pure is in.

        #7. Mark V. to Myles: “You ask if I am “suggesting we should believe all of the people in this [nutraceutical] industry, or only Lindsey Duncan??”

        The importance of reputation is another reason why I am encouraging you in the strongest terms to recognize your mistakes and apologize to Dr. Lindsey. There are plenty of people and companies out there selling nutraceuticals (and pharmaceuticals) that are inferior products. Lindsey Duncan is not one of those people. His products work, and they work because they have very high quality ingredients and are formulated by an honest, intelligent, well-educated naturopathic healer.

        I am sorry, but there has not been any evidence given by anyone on this blog or anywhere on the internet that shows that Mr. Lindsey Duncan is an honest or well-educated man. He bought his degree online from a discredited and defunct college. In one of the least ethical displays of misrepresentation, he shills his green coffee beans, at first hiding any relationship to the company selling the beans and then when outed, only admitting to one of the companies that he recommends you buy from. To this day he has not once owned up to the company that his wife registered in Las Vegas, that he himself recommends you buy from. Get him to come on here and answer the claims against him if you want me to have any belief in his integrity. As it stands, one of your only arguments that I should believe Mr. Lindsey over other people is that you think he is honest. I don’t. Your other argument is that you are claiming his nutraceuticals are superior to others in terms of quality. Other people on this blog are arguing that they are not. They are saying they are probably inferior and are certainly a terrible value.

        #8. Myles: “You state that you “have never found one reputable source that believes in overly acidic body being the root of many common diseases.””

        If you were paying attention and doing your homework, you would have realized that the alkaline theory promotes EXACTLY the kind of diet that is known to promote healthy functioning of a human body. It is EXACTLY the diet which has been thoroughly documented by scientists to prevent heart disease and cancer.

        I don’t doubt that it is a healthy diet, but it has nothing to do with Blood PH, which all of your follow up quotes acknowledge and you seem to as well. I am a huge fan of a plant based diet with healthy lean proteins, but the mumbo jumbo that nutritional healers have created around blood Ph was entirely discredited a long time ago. I agree with what you are saying about this being a healthy way to eat and most reputable doctors have supported this form of eating for a long time. Longer than Mr. Lindsey and without the made up concept of balancing blood Ph and all of the ancillary products that Mr. Lindsey sells to keep that blood Ph in the sweet spot!

        Your quote: “The alkaline diet is basically healthy, says Marjorie Nolan, RD, an American Dietetic Association spokeswoman.
        “It’s a diet of fresh fruits and vegetables, plenty of water, avoiding processed foods, coffee, and alcohol, which are all recommendations for a generally healthy diet anyway,” Nolan says. “But our body regulates our pH between 7.35 and 7.45 no matter how we eat.”

        You are right though, I haven’t proven that this blood Ph thing is false, I have just proven that no reputable person thinks it is true. You can say the following:

        It is fair to say that some of these claims have not been proven. However, this doesn’t mean you are an expert who has proven they are untrue, either! You are so overzealous and overconfident that you give the illusion you are proving those ideas false, or that their advocates are being deceitful. You have proved nothing of the sort!

        But I don’t think we are looking at a case of Alkaline diet being unproved, it is a case of it being debunked.

        #9. I didn’t see a number 9 in your comment.

        #10. My lack of qualifications to judge Dr. Lindsey

        You falsely attribute to me the idea that one must “be a nutritionist to be skeptical of weight loss con artists.”
        I did not say that. I am not a nutritionist, and yet here I am pointing out that your pseudo-scientific weight loss nutrition blog is rife with errors and unsound advice. I would not call you a con-artist but… OK, yes I would. You are conning people into believing that you are using the scientific method to expose unsound nutritional advice, but you are actually just giving your personal opinions and being completely unscientific. And selling your weight loss book which I am guessing is as unscientific and detrimental as your blog articles.

        You continually question my ability to criticize Mr. Lindsey, suggesting that I am a gardener and that I should give golf advice.

        Mark, if this was a golf blog and you were telling people the wrong way to hold their putter, I would just not read your blog.

        My analysis of Mr. Lindsey and his claims has been based upon science and logic. You suggest he doesn’t post the science because he is in business. Fine, but then don’t attack me for wanting to see studies and results for his products. From a scientific point of view, very little of what Mr. Lindsey is saying has been proven. You can argue that just because it isn’t proven, doesn’t make it untrue, but then you still have to give me a reason to believe Mr. Lindsey over all of the other people out there shilling false products, because we all know there are a lot of them.

        #11. Myles’ PhD is in chemical engineering.

        My mistake. When I go back to Linked in, where I thought I read that your degree was in philosophy, I see that your both your post graduate and undergraduate degrees are in chemical engineering. I have no idea why I thought I read that your degree was in philosophy. You asked:

        Did you just guess? Was that just your personal opinion? Either you are incredibly lazy, or just completely lacking in resourcefulness and intelligence.

        None of the above. I just misread something or got it wrong. I did look it up, but I made a mistake. not a big one, because the sentence would have only read:

        “Your PhD is in chemical engineering, is it not? …why does that give you credentials to tell people what to believe, while everyone else has to shut up?”

        You go on to say:

        I don’t tell people what to believe, I make arguments and back them up with solid scientific reasoning, references, and logic. All of which are almost entirely lacking from your so-called nutritional weight loss blog.

        This simply isn’t true. I can’t respond to such vague and incendiary comments, except to say that they aren’t true. Please, if you want to have a rational discourse, stick to the facts. I have not at any time suggested that you are lazy, unintelligent, or totally lacking in logic, so please do not claim the same of me. It is, quite simply, far from the truth. Everyone reading this blog is aware of that, so it only makes you look foolish and petulant when you claim it. If you think this is a discussion you can win, then do as you say you do, and win it on the merits of your evidence.

    • scottbelser@yahoo.com permalink
      December 15, 2013 11:01 am

      did i go to no regrets and am i an ibo is that your answer for anyone who has another
      opinion well i did go to amazon and read a review of your book maybee i should post it
      not to good

  46. Robert permalink
    July 6, 2013 11:07 pm

    You are a glutton for punishment, aren’t you? I’ve tried to let you go on this a couple of times because quite frankly I am tired of embarrassing you, but since you insist, please do tell, how does a person who is in the top income bracket of 40.0% legally reduce their tax obligation to just 14%? I am dying to know.

    • July 7, 2013 7:49 am

      Robert calm down… don’t be so hard on yourself… you are not embarrassing me. I am fine, but am honored that you are so worried about my self-esteem. Thanks. But you simply need to do some research on income tax and how to lower your due. It is simple enough. Not enough time to explain in depth here, but there are plenty of schools and educational writings out there on the subject. Trust me… once you get there, and you are making the money, you will want to know how to keep it legally and will find a way.

    • Robert permalink
      July 7, 2013 1:16 pm

      Green Coffee Bean Extract (800mg)…….
      http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R1.TR12.TRC2.A0.Xgreen+coffee+.TRS0&_nkw=green+coffee+bean+extract&_sacat=0&_from=R40

      Prices range from $10-$15 for 30 count. GenesisPURE costs $29.95 plus shipping. GP products are VASTLY overpriced…as are all products in pyramid scams.

      “None of you have taken the products yourselves and speak from personal experience”

      Ah-hem…excuse me!?!?!? I have taken them all and I am here to tell you, with the single exception of the $40 bottle of fruit juice Go-Yin, all GenesisPURE products taste like absolute dog shit. No, that is incorrect. Dog shit would taste delicious compared to GenesisPURE. I know several people who literally puked their guts out after taking it, it tastes that horrible. One of my family members had to put all the products on EBAY and sell them at a loss after buying in at the $1,500 level because she literally couldn’t get them in her stomach.

      But that misses the point. You don’t need to take the products because you can simply go to the GP website and call bullshit on the product claims right now. Take the daily cleanse for example that GP claims to “detoxify every cell in every organ in the body”. The only thing “pure” about that statement is that it is pure horseshit. Ask any semi-reputable medical doctor if colon cleansing or detoxifying organs is even POSSIBLE (let alone necessary) and they will say absolutely positively not. It’s Quackery.

      Still don’t believe me….okay how about this WebMD article on the your guys’ highly touted “Silver” spray….

      “Colloidal silver is LIKELY UNSAFE for use. The silver in colloidal silver products gets deposited in vital organs such as the skin, liver, spleen, kidney, muscle, and brain. This can lead to an irreversible bluish skin discoloration that first appears in the gums.”

      http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-779-COLLOIDAL%20SILVER.aspx?activeIngredientId=779&activeIngredientName=COLLOIDAL%20SILVER

      I don’t need to practice “bloodletting” to know it doesn’t cure infection. Likewise, you don’t need to take GenesisPURE products to know its quackery – you just have to be able to read, do some actual medical research instead of relying upon testimonials from other financially invested IBOs, oh, and have some level of basic intelligence.

      “If my friend was making great money and believed in her company, you better believe I would not talk trash and spout hateful denouncements without actual facts and knowledge.”

      If she was doing it illegally (claiming GP products treat, cure, and prevent disease) in an illegal pyramid (MLMs are just illegal pyramid schemes that exploit loopholes in the law to be “technically” legal) to deceive people out of their for her own personal greed and materialism under the cloak of “god brought me into your life to bring GP to you”….you would not be happy for her. And if said illegal pyramid scheme harmed or destroyed countless relationships with friends, family members, and co-workers you would not be happy for her. And if said illegal pyramid scheme put your friend in a cult-like trance where she doesn’t seem to care about anything other than her downline and literally every single post on FB is something about GP and she doesn’t talk about anything other than GP and doesn’t associate with anyone other than other GP members or potential recruitment targets and spends every waking free minute doing something with GP you would not be happy for her. And if said pyramid scheme put your entire family at war in either a “pro-GP” side or an “anti-GP” side with each constantly arguing with each other you would not be happy she brought this bullshit into your family. And if people were hesistant to talk to you or be friends with you because they assume you are involved with this cult-like pyramid because of who your friend is and they don’t want to be caught in a corner with you hearing some GP pitch and afraid you’re going to try to pressure them into joining GP so people who were formerly your friends start to avoid you you would not be happy for your friend.

      Shall I go on? I can.

      “Yes, it is illegal to say that these products cure diseases. Same with any vitamins or health supplements that haven’t been proven effective in expensive million dollar trials.”

      What’s a million dollar trial when you got (according to Ketchum) lots of IBOs getting paid MILLIONS (plural) a year???? This is the funniest GP defense of all…..that clinical trials are too expensive. Yeah right. It’s too expensive to research and trial but not too expensive to sell! If that doesn’t show where GP’s priorities are I don’t what else does.

      “I am often asked if Network Marketing is a Pyramid Scheme. My reply is that corporations really are pyramid schemes. A corporation has only one person at the top, generally the CEO, and everyone else below.” — Donald Trump”

      Donald Trump? Seriously, are you kidding me? No really, are you serious? You’re seriously quoting Donald Trump as a source proving the legitmacy of pyramid schemes? Donald Trump?

      Oh boy, where do I even begin….

      #1. There is NOTHING even remote similar between traditional corporate management heirarchy and MLMs. Nothing. Not one thing. The vast majority of sales of a traditional corporation come from the general public NOT EMPLOYED BY THE CORPORATIONS. The vast majority of sales within MLMs come from “internal consumption” which is the purchases of company product by employees of the company – not the public. This violates the first rule of capitalism – supply and demand. As I mentioned before, the little town of Hays, KS (population = 12,000) has well over 3,000 GenesisPURE Distributors. Does that make any sense whatsoever? What other business in the world would put 3,000 distributors in a town of 12,000? Can you imagine 3,000 Chevy Dealerships or 3,000 Walgreens or 3,000 gas stations in a town of 12,000 people???? It’s ludicrous. This is the reason why practically all MLMs collapse, and why when they do, the con artists running them simply move on and and start up another MLM (which is what the Asian guy who works with Duncan has done many times before and is currently doing with GP) leaving all the IBOs with their you-know-whats out in the wind. Traditional business expand on REALZIED growth from increased DEMAND. MLMs artifically create demand through their own employees by FORCING employees to purchase product. Consequently, the only way to increase profits is to increase the sales force, hence the 99% focus on recruitment and the 1% focus on the products. This works for a while, and can even make people lots of money – for a while – but it always eventually collapses, it’s destined to. And that certainly doesn’t mean the money that was made was made eithically.

      #2. Most celebrities are morons. The fact that GenesisPURE quotes celebrities as if because someone is a celebrity they are obviously smarter than the rest of us is just ridiculous. Yeah, a lot of celebrities bought into “Dr.” Lindsey’s bullshit doesn’t mean we should. Who cares if he was a “nutritionist to the stars”. Michael Jackson’s doctors was a doctor to the stars and he killed him!!!

      • July 8, 2013 6:17 am

        Robert… another attempt at deceipt.

        You post a URL Green Coffee Bean Extract (800mg)…….
        http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R1.TR12.TRC2.A0.Xgreen+coffee+.TRS0&_nkw=green+coffee+bean+extract&_sacat=0&_from=R40

        to show that our green coffee bean is overpriced. You failed. The URL you posted is ebay where everything is on sale and they are not even reputable companies.

        Here is a link to a Wal-Mart green coffee bean http://www.walmart.com/ip/22795401?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=21486607510&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=19880599990&veh=sem

        at 29.95, while ours is 24.95 for 60 capsules.

        Boom!

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 8, 2013 2:02 pm

        Mark,

        I searched purchase Green Coffee Bean Extract on google. This was what came up:
        Green Coffee Bean Extract

        It appears that for $29.95 you are at the very high end of price, but not outrageous. Someone is priced about 15% higher than you. But I think you can see the problem, the one I identified a long time ago:
        Genesis Today

        Your own founder has undercut your price by 25%!!! This is the exact same product, with the exact same dose and quantity and recommended dose. I don’t think there is an MLM in the world where this is happening by the way. How in the world you guys are supporting a founder who has end arounded you and sells the same products that you have to buy at inflated prices and flog to your friends at even more inflated prices. He sells these products on his TV appearances and through Walmart. He doesn’t push your product, he pushes his own!! They are cheaper and the quality is identical. I would describe that as one of the greatest screwings in the history of MLMs.

        A while back I asked you Mark if you were bothered by the fact that not only does Mr. Duncan admit to owning the competitive company to yours, but more importantly, he has never admitted to opening another company out of Las Vegas, putting some of the Genesis Today people and his wife in charge and then he pretends to consult and promote for them out of the goodness of his heart. Further, in his press releases he does not say, get this product from a Genesis Pure supplier, he instead says, get it from me at Genesis today or from some nice people at Pure Health (the other company he owns). I don’t know how many dogs he has in this fight, but you guys are only one of his teams… the others he has alone and he is out competing you!

        Here is Pure Health’s product.
        Pure Health

        This is the exact same product again, only half the quantity. Double the price and you get the same price he sells his main product line at. This is available at Walmart, as are his entire line of supplements.

        Mr. Lindsey does know his stuff, but unfortunately the stuff he knows is not health and wellness. It is ruthless business. He says at the beginning of many of his videos and TV appearances, ‘I almost never recommend weight loss supplements”. This is a complete and utter lie from a man prone to lying. He recommends weight loss supplements more than almost any other person alive. At one of his appearances at one of the MLM meetings he says, ‘I am not a business man, I don’t know anything about business’. Another complete and unabashed lie. He is nothing but a business man. He is devious and cunning and how the MLM has not filed a class action against him I do not know. Probably because you all haven’t lost enough money yet. The lawsuit will be coming for sure.

      • July 8, 2013 5:19 pm

        Youarenotafitperson… did you really do any research before you posted this last comment? Did you do any research before posting this blog?

        The very first Green Coffee Bean you show is 500 mg… not the dose that Genesis PURE offers… also none of the Black Pepper Extract.

        The Green Coffee Bean offered by Genesis Today is only 400 mg… 1/2 the dose that Genesis PURE offers… thus it would take 2 tabs to match one tab.

        Boom!

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 8, 2013 8:09 pm

        Mark,

        Please take a second to look at the situation before you respond back. Just double check some of the facts. The Green Coffee Bean Extract sold by Genesis Pure says the following: Serving Size: Two (2) capsules, Servings Per Container: 30, Amount per Serving 800mg. That means that each pill is 400mg and there are 60 in a bottle (You should know the amount of product in each bottle that you are selling by the way), and this is the same dose in all of the products we are comparing. True, none of the other products have BioPerine, but there has never been a test to see how BioPerine and Green Coffee Bean Extract work together. Any claims that one helps the other are pure conjecture. BioPerine may help the absorption of Green Coffee Extract, but it is just as likely that it may not. On a side note, your Boom! is almost as annoying as Dave Hester’s Yuup! Seriously, you just boomed a comment where you were completely wrong…

      • July 9, 2013 6:04 am

        I stand corrected, you are correct. 400 mg x 2 = 800 mg. In my hurry, I bloopered.

      • July 8, 2013 5:23 pm

        Also, everything you state about Lindsey Duncan being a good business man is probably true. Not a good reason, not to be a part of his company.

      • Robert permalink
        July 8, 2013 5:30 pm

        “The URL you posted is ebay….”

        Yeah, so what??? You wanted proof you can buy Green Coffee Bean for much much cheaper than what GenesisPURE sells it for and I gave it to you. Now want to claim it doesn’t count because I found it on EBAY? Hahahaha.You are slippery little devil I’ll give you that. You’re hilarious. You demand proof and when provided it you just move the goal post. Again, no wonder you are so attracted to the GenesisPURE pyramid scheme model. Your personality is perfect for it.

        Okay, so the new request is to provide you proof GenesisPURE products are over-priced BUT…but but but…….I can only use brick-and-mortar stores….I can’t use EBAY. Do I got that right? Okay, so under your new limited terms…here is a 60 count of Green Coffee Bean at Walgreens for $13.49 a bottle….

        http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/windmill-green-coffee-bean%2c-tablets/ID=prod6141505-product

        “…..ours is 24.95 for 60 capsules”

        Oooops! You forgot the shipping and handling (which even you have to admit the shipping costs GenesisPURE charges are absolutely ridiculous) and the initial sign up fee to be able to order the product in the first place – neither of which I have to pay at Walgreens or Walmart or anywhere else. There you go being misleading and dishonest again. Darn it, hard habit to break working for GP I know. Full disclosure is not very important being a GenesisPURE IBO but you forget, I not one of your “warm market” leads. I know the GP game and all the fine print. If a person wants to purchase a bottle of your green coffee bean pills first they have to join GP for at least $39.95 and then they have to pay $24.95 for the pills and another ridiculous shipping and handling charge on top of that. The average joe blow off the street would have to pay close to $100.00 for a bottle of your pills intially and then over $30.00 a bottle after that….when they can walk into any Walgreens or heaven forbid use EBAY to get the same damn pills for under $15. This is why it is a scam, scam, scam, and oh yeah…..scam.

        “……..and they are not even reputable companies”

        Hahahaha…LOL….funniest comment on the entire blog right there. “Not even reputable companies”……pfffffttt….and what? GenesisPURE is??? Oh yes multi-level marketing organizations are VERY reputable. Yeah, especially the brand new ones (your company is barely 4 years old and still in its “foundation stage” remember?). Oh yeah, everyone agrees a foundation stage MLM is the most reputable kind of company a person can buy from. Yeah, you bet. LOL!

      • July 8, 2013 5:37 pm

        Don’t be foolish. You know you felt the boom and now you are scrambling.

        I can buy a 3,000 Thomas Kinkade print and sell it on ebay for 2500.00. That doesn’t mean that somebody selling the print for 3,000.00 is overpriced, it just means you can get bargains on ebay.

        Our debate was whether or not we were competitively priced in the marketplace. Bringing ebay into this shows again that you are still at a loss on how to present your false ideas about a business and a product you surely know nothing about. The same with your beliefs on income tax and finances.

      • Robert permalink
        July 8, 2013 6:02 pm

        Whoa…wait a minute there Chief…

        -You forgot to address the pills I found for you at Walgreens. Why aren’t you addressing those?

        -And you forgot to address the $39.95 signup fee required in order to buy the pills in the first place. Why didn’t you respond to that?

        -And you forgot to address the shipping & handling charge added on top of and in addition to the $24.95 per bottle price. Why aren’t you addressing that?

        Do you see why now nobody here takes you seriously? Most people don’t like feeling like they are being deceived and despite not being very good at it, you try anyway. I can tell you are a good guy and not a con artist like the snake-in-the-grass you work for because you suck at deceiving people and I can tell it doesn’t come naturally for you…so stop doing it!!!

        The lying GenesisPURE does and GenesisPURE IBOs train others to do is not active intentional lying….it’s lying by omission and telling half-truths, which is what you’re doing here. For example:

        -When somebody asks you, “Hey, how much does one of those bottles of Green Coffee Bean cost?” you tell them $24.95…..you omit the substantial shipping and handling fee and the even more substantial signup fee. This is basically Used Car Salesman selling. Get them to the table first and then “pop” the other costs and fees on them.

        -When somebody asks you, “Yeah, but don’t the vast majority of people who join MLMs lose money in them?” You are trained to tell them that yeah a lot of people lose money in MLMs, but it’s because those people weren’t willing to work hard enough. It lead people to believe they only way somebody can fail at this is by not being willing to work it hard enough, which is a half-truth at best. Yeah, some people don’t work it all (for various reasons) and lose money and yeah in that case it’s their own fault. The key phrase here is “in that case”. That’s just one of a hundred different scenarios in which somebody could lose money in GP and the other 99 are NOT their fault, including…..

        1. Being misled about the work that will be required to make money by the person who signed them up.
        2. Not being told the products taste like ass.
        3. Not knowing how to sell and recruit and not being properly trained on how to do so.
        4. Not being told there are hundreds of similar competitive products in the marketplace at much cheaper prices.
        5. Living in a small town of 12,000 people and not knowing or being told over 3,000 other distributors in the same small town have already been signed up before you and basically everyone in a 100 mile radius of that town has already been pitched the opportunity and either declined or signed up.

      • July 8, 2013 6:17 pm

        Robert said,

        “Whoa…wait a minute there Chief…

        -You forgot to address the pills I found for you at Walgreens. Why aren’t you addressing those?

        -And you forgot to address the $39.95 signup fee required in order to buy the pills in the first place. Why didn’t you respond to that?

        -And you forgot to address the shipping & handling charge added on top of and in addition to the $24.95 per bottle price. Why aren’t you addressing that?”

        Well, Robert, because I was commenting on the Ebay thing… that’s why. My beef was with the ebay thing… that’s why. And here you are deflecting once again because you and your conclusions were laid to rest. Boom!

        But I will address them here, since you seem to have no idea.

        1. You don’t have to pay the 39.95 enrollment fee if you are a student or military or ex military. You can also buy the products retail.

        But if you do want the products wholesale, you pay 39.95 for a whole year and for the life of the company. There is no yearly fee if you continue to order products. So for the 1st year if you take 39.95 and divide it by all the products you buy, you may notice a couple of cents extra… this is why it is not mentioned.

        2. Shipping and Handling charge would also apply to Ebay. So why are you even presenting this? Because you don’t think… you just argue.

        3. The pils you found at Walgreens are 400 mg… 1/2 the strength of the 800 mg and I don’t see Black Pepper extract which is essential. So even if you double the dose the price would also double at 27.00, which is more than GP version which is better. If you order the product through the Walmart website you also have to pay S&H. If you drive to Walmart you would be able to bypass the S&H but that is not even an argument, because that would be the same with any online company vs. physical store.

        You haven’t proven a thing. Boom!

      • Robert permalink
        July 8, 2013 6:51 pm

        Here ya go….Green Coffee Bean, 800mg, 60 count, sorted by “FREE SHIPPING”

        1. $15.90 – 3 bottles ($5.30 per bottle)
        2. $17.99 – 3 bottles ($5.99 per bottle)
        3. $15.89 – 3 bottles ($5.89 per bottle)
        4. $16.90 – 3 bottles ($5.63 per bottle)
        5. $16.45 – 3 bottles ($5.48 per bottle)

        http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_FS=1&_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=green+coffee+bean+800mg&LH_BIN=1

        Those were just the first 5 listings. Remind me again why something you are selling for close to $30.00 a bottle for is not a scam when you can buy the indentical same thing for $5-$6 a bottle online and pay no shipping? Oh yeah, this is a solid business plan alright. You are 5 times higher than your competitors.

        Oh yeah and I almost forgot….

        BOOM!

        hahahaha LOL

      • July 8, 2013 7:24 pm

        First of all, I don’t know the company that made these GCB’s… but I do know GP and the formulator. Also, once again, you use Ebay to make a point that they sell things cheaper and so therefore the more expensive seller is a scam.

        I can do that too!!!

        Macy’s sells a polo t-shirt for 39.50 but marked it down to 29.50 here http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/polo-ralph-lauren-shirt-short-sleeve-jersey-pocket-crewneck-t-shirt?ID=795758&CategoryID=47460#fn=sp%3D1%26spc%3D64%26ruleId%3D5%26slotId%3D19

        Ebay sells a similar t-shirt from polo at 23.80 and it is not on sale here http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/polo-ralph-lauren-shirt-short-sleeve-jersey-pocket-crewneck-t-shirt?ID=795758&CategoryID=47460#fn=sp%3D1%26spc%3D64%26ruleId%3D5%26slotId%3D19

        Therefore Macy’s is a scam… because I can find a bunch of polo t-shirts on Ebay that sell for way less than the scamming illegitimate companies like Macy’s, Nordstroms, etc…

        Boom!

      • Jay permalink
        March 16, 2014 8:00 am

        Touche’ I am right there with you. I have family members who also are in GP.

  47. Robert permalink
    July 7, 2013 9:07 am

    Hahaha…you’re are so full of crap. No wonder you’re so attracted to GP. Being absolutely 100% full of B.S. is the #1 requirement. t’s so funny, you guys are all the same. Just like Genesis Pure, you make all sorts of wild claims and then when somebody demands you back up your bullshit claims with proof or evidence…..you can’t so you run away and hide! LOL! I can tell you’ve been trained well!

    You have no idea what you’re talking about and that is painfully obvious. Take it from someone who HAS grossed over $1 million a year….it is absolutely impossible to pay just $14,000 in taxes (apparently some arbitrary number you just pulled out of your ass) on $100,000 of 1099 income when you’re in the top tax bracket (39.6% to be exact). This is 1099 income we’re talking about here buddy…not cash, not rental income, not capital gains, etc. Yeah, I can pay 0.0% tax on all sorts of income and have done so many, many, many times. But we’re talking about 1099 income here. Do you even know what 1099 income is? Have you ever had any experience in dealing with 1099 income prior to your Genesis Pure pyramid scam? Apparently not, so let me enlighten you……

    1099 income is pre-tax income reported to the IRS, by another party, as being paid TO YOU in income. You can’t hide 1099 income. The only thing you can do is try to find expenses to write that income off against in an effort to reduce your total taxable income to put bump you down into a lower bracket if you’re right on the edge. The top bracket is 39.6% for income of $400,000 or greater. So if you make $1 million a year in 1099 income, you’re going to have to find $600,000 worth of expenses to reduce your overall tax liability to the next lower bracket of…hold it….wait…..35%!!!

    To reduce it to 14% you would have write off $965,000 in expenses on that $1 million in 1099 income to get to the $35,000 per year or less of income at 14% bracket requires (it’s actually 15% but I know 14% is just a number you pulled out of your ass so I’m trying to work with you here)….and by your own admission there is no possible way to come up with $965,000 in expenses for $1 million in income in Genesis Pure.

    You don’t make real money and never have – that is obvious. You know nothing about making real money, 1099 income, or high net worth tax liability. That is very clear. You are not succesful. That is also very clear. Unsuccessful people are very attracted to pyramid scams. That is why all the top money earners are all people who were broke losers before becoming “top money earners” with GP. This is because the con artists running the scam look for people who have never really made money or experienced any real success in their lives and pump them all up to keep them motivated to go out there and continuing selling the scam to others to keep the REAL money coming in to those at the top of the pyramid. You never will make real money. And you never will be successful because you chase pyramid schemes and you’re dishonest and you buy into bullshit fed to you by con artists and you don’t back up your arguments or claims (personal or business) with a single shred of proof or evidence.

    • July 7, 2013 9:38 am

      Dude calm down… you are so fired up to argue, you aren’t even arguing what we are arguing about. You are spouting about 1,000,000.00 tax brackets and 400,000.00 tax brackets and here we are talking about 100,000 tax brackets. At least get on the same page.

      • Robert permalink
        July 7, 2013 11:52 am

        No, we are NOT talking about $100,000 tax brackets, and we never were. You are misleading (or uninformed) again. We were talking about $100,000 worth of Genesis Pure 1099 income that my friend made over the last year. It’s not like GP is her only source of income (thank God). I told you before she was in the top tax bracket (39.6%). So if she makes $100,000 worth of Genesis Pure income she only nets $60,000 of that (before any expenses) because it’s 1099 income and you get hammered on 1099 income. You were trying to say she would net $86,000 on that income……without any evidence or proof as to how somehow could legally get away with paying only 14% on a $100k of 1099 income. It wouldn’t even matter if Genesis Pure WAS her only source of income because at $100,000 she would STILL be in a 28% tax bracket – nowhere NEAR the 14% you were claiming.

        Hence, I can only assume you mean doing something less than legal. Look, if it was anything else other than 1099 income I would be all with you. There’s plenty of accounting games you can play with the books to pay little or nothing. But 1099 income, you’re screwed since it’s somebody else telling Uncle Sam that’s what they paid you. So unless you’re going to contest it and claim you didn’t actually receive it, you’re going to get hammered on taxes. 1099 income is basically the same as W2 income, but instead of your employer taxing your taxes out of your paycheck for you, you have to keep track of your own tax obligation and take it out of your check and pay it yourself. That’s item number 1 billion where GP screws you….they pay you in 1099 income. You assume all the financial risk and liability exposure of a self-employed business owner but with the paycheck and lack of company or product control of a W2 employee. Read your contract again, you get sued over something with GP you are on your own my friend. GP won’t even claim to know who you are…let alone provide you an attorney or help you in any way, shape, or form. Wait until the FDA gets word you IBOs are going around claiming GP will treat you’re high blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, etc. etc. etc. You’ll see where Lindsey Duncan’s true alligence lies – and that’s with his pocketbook! Duncan’s team of lawyers made sure to leave no stone unturned with that contract (you probably glanced over at best) you signed. Each one of you IBOs can be held individually liable for the product claims, product liability, and non-compliance with the FDA. You have no clue. Take that contract to a good product liability or CPG attorney and see what he or she says. They’ll advise you to get the hell out of this thing as soon as humanly possible.

      • July 7, 2013 5:37 pm

        Sorry, but we were talking about 100,000.00 since there is no way anybody on this blog could know that your friend has other income or what it is. We were talking about an income of 100,000.00. Nice try.

      • Robert permalink
        July 7, 2013 6:29 pm

        Again, even at just $100,00 in total income, there’s no way to anyone could get away with just paying $14,000 in total income tax. No way. I made that point several times. You don’t know what you’re talking about, just admit it and move on.

      • July 7, 2013 6:53 pm

        Here is an example for you. Sorry that you are unaware that you can pay less income tax.

        We have income of $165,000 and deductions of $87,000 for net income of $78,000 for the year. The first $50,000 is taxed at 15% for a total of $7,500. Income between $50,000 and $75,000 is taxed at 25% or $6,250. The remaining $3,000 ($78,000 less $75,000) is taxed at 34% or $1,020. Our total tax for the year is $14,770.

        Again I apologize if this in any way makes you look ignorant. I simply am tired of people claiming to know things that don’t.

      • Robert permalink
        July 7, 2013 7:40 pm

        You are talking about W2 income. I am talking about 1099 income. I don’t have the time to educate you on the differences between the two. Suffice it to say, you pay about $21k in taxes on that $60k you claim you made (will make?) with GP. That nets you $36,000 not including any travel expenses. That’s an average of less than $3k per month. You’d be better off selling insurance or getting your real estate license.

        Oh, but wait, you can make HUGE money selling GP.

        Okay, I’ll go with that. You claim to know of 8 people who have made huge money with GP. There are literally tens of thousands of IBOs in GenesisPURE and you only know 8???

        You have better odds in Vegas. My recommendation? Take your $36,000 you made with GP, take it to the roulette table and put it on red. You have much better odds of making big money that way than with GP.

      • July 7, 2013 9:09 pm

        Robert, either you are being dishonest here or you truly do not have a grasp of what you are purporting to know.

        I am speaking clearly of LLC income… a 1099… not a W2. The text I previously gave you came from an original workbook I have from a master finance manager (whose name we all know) speaking on starting an LLC and paying taxes.

        Please stop this. I will no longer argue with you on this subject despite your next attempt to sound like you know what you are saying again. And your consistent demeaning comments about others apparently not knowing what they are saying, is projection.

  48. Dakota R. permalink
    July 7, 2013 10:33 am

    LOL. So you concocted an alternate alias just to give yourself “another” dog in this fight? Honestly, read through your “Robert Crenshaw” post and tell me how any of that is supposed to help your argument here. You even went as far as to doubt the nutrient content of the products (although you contradicted that on your “coming out” post) and acted completely unbiased (arguably) to the subject matter. And yet, when you reply as Robert Crenshaw to the blog owner’s rebuttal you state you “made your fortunate in real estate”… if you were trying to prove a point in your out post, thereby confirming it was you all along, why would you mention real estate? Why would you continually act as if you were Robert himself? Yet you claim you did it on purpose. Seems to me that you wrote an entirely unnecessary alias post and then forgot to sign off as that said alias in the rebuttal.

    Whatever the case, it looks EXTREMELY foolish. Not only have you proven to be dishonest, you’ve contradicted yourself in the process. It’s obvious you have a strong conviction for GP, and that’s cool. But it’s also extremely pathetic that you will argue the facts that these products are overpriced, underdosed, some not even worth pissing on, and step on family and friends to do so. You will continue to post here (after saying you were leaving, ironically after being outed as “Robert Crenshaw”) and spout off nonsensical gibberish about how GP products are healing people and are miracle medicines. I LOL at you, seriously. You may be making money, I’m not doubting that. But you aren’t making God very happy while swindling people that trust you into buying worthless product, and your ego-driven posts about being on top, and how much money you’ve made, isn’t very Christan-like is it? I listened in to one conference call with Bruce and a few others and I cringed at one ladies blind conviction to this “business.” ‘God has truly brought me here and I’m already getting checks, I’m so happy to be here, I want this to be full time for the rest of my life.” I was astounded. Not only that, the guy that got me and my girlfriend into this mess had his mother quit her job (single mother, mind you) and start this full time. Apparently he and her are already making “pretty good checks.” Yeah… not likely. When asked for proof of said return, he failed to show us. I just cannot believe that a middle aged woman would quit her job after 2 weeks into GP thinking she will make a fortune. In fact, the texts and calls from the unnamed acquaintance of mine have stopped. So maybe he’s starting to wise up to the idea that this is nothing more than a pyramid scheme that will never make him the type of money he was promised by his team leader.

    I’ve dipped my feet into the MLM water, and it was cold. Never making that mistake again. I pity those who are signing up right now thinking they’ll be millionaires in 2-3 years like I was told by Mr Bruce.

    • July 7, 2013 10:57 am

      I nor anybody else is responsible for anybody’s ignorance. I was shown an opportunity just like the one I show everybody else. I knew there was a good chance of failure, but I also knew that doing what I am doing right now was certain failure for my retirement and my future. No legitimate business man ever thought that there was not a great chance of failure when he/she first started. It is that risk that drove them. Your statement that you “dipped” your feet into the MLM water, shows that you already set yourself up for failure. My wife and I plunged head first into the roaring waters and our risk is great. The saying that if you believe you will fail, you are right… if you believe you will succeed, you are also right… it so true. And people will always follow greatness… so just dipping feet in doesn’t allow anybody to want to do what you did… they will also dip their feet in, and you will fail along with all of the people you showed the opportunity to. So you are partly at fault for their failure and you should be ashamed. Whereas my wife and I are full book in. And when we show this to others… we are full book in for them as well. We are in for the long haul, and will always help those who are also in for the long haul to build their business just as those above me are helping us daily. Those who get in and drop by the way side… we still love them, but they are responsible for their own lives… we can’t keep calling them daily and encouraging them… they have to be self starters… they have to want this. And I cannot assume that they don’t want it when they first start. That is their thing… all I can do is present the product and opportunity the best that I can and then help those that ask, “Mark, what do we do next”. Those are the winners.

      You also contradict yourself here,

      “It’s obvious you have a strong conviction for GP, and that’s cool. But it’s also extremely pathetic that you will argue the facts that these products are overpriced, underdosed, some not even worth pissing on, and step on family and friends to do so.”

      You say it is cool that I have a strong conviction for GP but then indicate that its not cool, but pathetic, that that I have a strong conviction for GP. A strong conviction means that I know they are overpriced (all MLM are… part of the package of being able to pay out commissions)… this is a given and most people know getting in that they can get other products cheaper but would be unable to build a business doing so. Which product is underdosed? And I disagree about your pissing analogy.

      You also stated that I would continue on “about how GP products are healing people and are miracle medicines.”

      Again you lie… and then you talk about dishonesty and how it is wrong… pharisee!!. I don’t believe, nor have I ever stated that GP products are healing people, and are miracle medicines. I have repeatedly stated here and in my private life that these herbs and nutrition don’t heal or cure, they give the body nutrition so that it can fight disease better. I also don’t call them miracle medicines… that is your own invention. They are natural fruits and minerals and vitamins, formulated masterfully to give the body what it needs to take care of itself. The miracle is our body.

      Please continue on with your dishonest rant while calling me dishonest because I did one post as somebody else and then immediately brought it to your attention to prove a point. LOL

  49. Dakota R. permalink
    July 7, 2013 12:54 pm

    Following that, all I ever did was (at first) chime in that I had gotten into the GP monkey business myself. I am the weightlifter that you’re referring to, Myles. (Or is this Mark again? LOL) but no, truthfully, that was a pretty hearty reply. Although I gotta stop you where you stand on prices, as Mark has already pointed out himself, the GP products ARE overpriced and he willfully acknowledged this. I never came here to attack the products initially… I actually began cordially with Mark because I was optimistic of GP. I quickly realized after reading online (I should have from the get go) and by my own conscience that I was more or less forcing these products onto family and friends. And that isn’t the worst of it. You also have to go around (small town) as the one who is shilling these “scamming products.” Let me tell you, MLM may technically work, but it’s not fun. There’s nothing worse than the idea of having to force product on people they don’t want, or guilt them into buying into something they don’t believe in. I opted out just as many others have and I don’t regret it. I wasn’t even bitter, in fact the sole reason I initially dropped is due to my current financial situation. I simply couldn’t afford to buy products monthly that I would never use.

    As for the GP Sports line. I can tell you that Isolyze, Trutein, and Beverly International all sell much, MUCH higher value protein for comparably lower prices. In fact, if you dig around enough, you’ll find much better values for anything in the GP Sports line. I don’t need to link you to anything because I know full well I’m right. If you so choose, you can quickly find this out for yourself. I have refrained from the other products, namely Goyin, the berries, etc. all of that “miracle” stuff. I can’t comment on them, nor will I, because I haven’t used them but I can tell you I am more than skeptical of how much they can truly help anybody. You can find coffee bean, acai, and other multivitamin packages that are just as efficient if not more so than GP’s products. And I’m not talking Centrum here.

    The reason people are buying into these products, continually? They don’t know ANY BETTER. That is 90% of the supplement industry right there. The masses will buy into anything with a fancy label and clever wording. You get Dr Oz promoting them, and sign a celebrity sports-figure to your brand and bam, you get sales. It’s no different than multiple Mr Olympia winner Jay Cutler shilling Celltech products, which have been so widely criticized against not just in the bodybuilding industry but the sports supplement market itself for years. T-shirts, Internet memes, parodies, etc have all been made at the expense of Celltech because the products they sell are CRAP. Yet people bought into the hype when they broke into the market with Cutler’s name attached to it.

    It’s thoughtful of you to exclude me from the list of attackers, but I didn’t do it at the request or knowledge of the blog owner. It was a financial decision and that alone. However, I’ve done plenty of researching and talked to many people across Texas (namely Kerrville) where GP is pretty much a laughing stock. In 2009, a lot of the high school sports directors and coaches fell into this scheme and were trying to convince surrounding districts to get these products into their athletes. That’s fine if they want to spend extra money on products they can get elsewhere for much cheaper. That’s to say they’re providing them the Sports Line which I can admit is far from bad, but definitely not GREAT. Don’t get me started on acai berry and all of that other stuff. But that was four years ago and I can safely say that they’re pretty much frowned upon now. Maybe one time, during startup, GP had people in the palm of their hands, and that’s all fine and well, but at this stage of the game, you’re wasting your money for little to no payoff, in my personal opinion.

    I grew up with 4 adopted siblings in a Southern Baptist home. I have a strong character and a good moral fiber. I guess it’s too late in Mark’s mind to accept an apology ONLY for perhaps the more vicious and unnecessary comments I may have made. That in no way, however, changes my point of view on GP. I understand how MLM works. I’m not bashing the system. But I am only here to say that these products are not the be all, end all of the supplement market and they’re absolutely not befitting of presidential fly-in trips to heal first families or anything like that. And I will go to my grave pretty much guaranteed certain that Reggie Bush didn’t consume a fraction of the GP line he “uses.” Point of fact, I have not come across any type of interview where Bush himself states he uses GP products. That’s just business as usual with marketing deals. You wanna know what Reggie Bush uses for performance? A lot of carbs, a lot of red meat, and a mighty fine dosing of anabolic substances. GP in professional football is pretty much the next deer antler velvet that Ray Lewis was talking about on some radio show and then quickly tried correcting himself after it went huge in the media. Another worthless, high end product that does absolutely nothing it claims to do. Those guys don’t, nor will they ever care about acai berry or coffee bean. I guarantee you 99.9% of them are using ON Gold Standard Whey and eating a ton of steak and pizza. (Along with their anabolic stacks and God-given athletic abilities).

    Again, I do wish to continue to be excluded from this list of “attackers.” All of which have been proving their point. So in their defense, no, they aren’t spouting empty rhetoric. They’ve been requesting clinical studies, doctoral certificates, tax loophole policies, etc. etc. I have been awaiting a rational reason from Mark himself as to what “point” he thinks he’s proven by aliasing as Robert Crenshaw. Even you laughed at that one. You said you understood why, well please explain. And don’t forget to explain why he would reply as Robert (under his actual name) and continue to act as if he made his fortune in real estate? On the very next post, the post in which he revealed (mistakenly) that he was Crenshaw, he spouted off that he didn’t believe the products were nutritious (although in his initial post, he DID), and that he was a realtor. So if that’s not a red flag of him being caught red handed as an imposter, I don’t know what is. It makes no logical sense and the only reply I got out of Mark in reference to it was “LOL. That’s already been established…blah blah blah.” Ignoring the rest of my question.To me, all credibility went out the window with Mark once he tried bringing in fake human beings into this discussion. I mean, go back and read his post again and tell me it’s not unbelievably laughable.

    I will no longer be attacking Mark. I’m just gonna sit back and watch the rest of the pack tear apart his defense. Genesis Pure is a MLM pyramid scheme that may make some people money, but I will have no part in products I don’t believe in nor will my family and friends. Unfortunately, I do have acquaintances that are falling for this thing at this very moment and as a matter of fact, I will get in contact with them this coming week and see where exactly they stand as of now. I bet they’ll be less than enthused in comparison to how they acted while trying to get me to sign up underneath them.

    • Myles Ikenberry permalink
      July 7, 2013 3:10 pm

      “Although I gotta stop you where you stand on prices, as Mark has already pointed out himself, the GP products ARE overpriced and he willfully acknowledged this.”

      The first thing I did when I saw this company’s presentation was make a spreadsheet of prices compared to GNC and Optimum Nutrition. Invest the time and prove your point or please stop making the claim. The entire sports line, on auto-ship, costs about $120 per month plus taxes/shipping. GP isn’t the cheapest but it’s not unreasonable by any means. If you’re not interested in proving what you are claiming about the prices, then the conversation is over as far as I am concerned.

      You can give yourself a kidney stone with too much creatine, I have a friend who had a heart attack before he was 20 because of the ultra-high protein/hardcore supplement weightlifting diet he was eating (according to him and his doctor -an MD-). Lots of the most high powered supplements are relatively new and not necessarily safe. GP isn’t for everyone, but it’s not a scam or overpriced.

      Ketchum has clearly been overwhelmed despite keeping his composure admirably and making valid points for many weeks. He was wrong to say that the prices are necessarily high. It is a strength of GP that everyday people without training in business can be extremely successful, and I think Ketchum did a good job on here until recently. I wish him the best of luck in all things.

      “I don’t need to link you to anything because I know full well I’m right.”

      I’m not going to respond to this. If you are too lazy to do it then hopefully someone else on your side will.

      “I never came here to attack the products initially… I actually began cordially with Mark because I was optimistic of GP. I quickly realized after reading online (I should have from the get go) and by my own conscience that I was more or less forcing these products onto family and friends. And that isn’t the worst of it. You also have to go around (small town) as the one who is shilling these “scamming products.” Let me tell you, MLM may technically work, but it’s not fun. There’s nothing worse than the idea of having to force product on people they don’t want, or guilt them into buying into something they don’t believe in.”

      For Heaven’s sakes that sounds horrible. My wife heard the presentation in a completely no-pressure way. She saw it, was told that if she was interested she could ask questions, that was it. We researched it on our own, then I heard the presentation the same no-pressure way, and that is how I have seen it presented. The first thing I did was price comparison the products. The multivitamin and sports line were solid competition against other products of similar value. There is cheaper stuff but not comparable stuff for lower prices. You can’t compare high fructose corn syrup gatorade vs. GP Hydration. Not the same product at all. Although GP is still competititive if you buy gatorade by the bottle…

      If you live in a small town, then yeah, you’re probably not going to build a huge customer base, so it very well may not be your thing. Definitely don’t try to force it on anyone or guilt them, jeez! That’s not the GP system at all, the opposite in fact. If you pressure people you will definitely not be successful. The system is to give the presentation and let them think it over, and never mention it again unless they bring it up. Whoever comes back to you will benefit and so will you. Many people won’t be interested, that’s totally OK. It’s just an opportunity, pressure is counter-productive and completely unnecessary.

      Some of my friends wanted in, some didn’t. The ones who tried it like the products as much as I do. I have seen people drop weight and have visible improvements in their health. I have seen bloodwork numbers improve similar to what Ketchum reported as his personal experience – disclaimer – I’m not saying the products cure diseases – wow our legalese culture is annoying.

      Maybe we’re all just high on placebo effect… that sounds totally believable, much more logical than people’s health actually improving from the consumption of nutrient-dense whole foods organic supplements…

      Anyway, good luck to your friends. You should have tried the products before you quit, in my humble opinion.

      • Lars permalink
        July 7, 2013 4:04 pm

        Hi Myles,
        I have been considering joining GP. I am highly intelligent and successful in my business ventures. I am legitimately considering this, but I am skeptical and with good reason. I’m not concerned about the $2000 startup cost. My concern is being able to believe in the product and knowing all the facts. I was a bit turned off when I heard from Me. Ketchum, as I heard from the guys recruiting me right now, that Duncan is a member if the Duncan/Heinz family. He is not. Not a big deal, but I was rubbed wrong by the misinformation. Both Mr. Ketchum and the higher up recruiting me, after researching, admitted they can find no proof Duncan is related to that family. I just want to learn all the legitimate facts about Duncan and this company. There is a serious lack of negative information available through search engines on this company and Duncan. One of my friends believes it is a very bad sign that GP has bought up all the URLs and possible search results for searches such as “genesis pure scam(con, fraud)”. It’s quite obvious GP has done this, but that can be argued to be a smart business move regardless of whether Duncan is a fraud or not, the produ ya work or not, or if it is a scam or not. I am extremely connected in my community with robust and established business networks, I am THE type guy that would succeed in a big way doing GP. I have made it clear to the man recruiting me that the most important thing to me is believing in the products. I could care less about everything else in all honesty. Yes, it is bothersome that it appears Duncan got his degree from a paper mill, but if the products are legit and make a meaningful difference, I can look past other issues. I assure you I am more than familiar with the placebo effect. It is quite real and powerful. The mind is powerful. This blog has given me reservations about joining, but by no means am I ready to walk away from a possible opportunity. I asked to try several products, but I was only given one “dose” of GPS pre workout mix for water. I even offered to pay for the samples of the products I wanted to try. If you can please give me links to peer reviews, clinical trials or studies, and any other factual and relevant information that uses the scientific method to show these products work. That is my concern. I will not be associated with a product I can’t stand behind and believe in. I have worked very hard for a very long time to establish my reputation and I won’t exploit that for money. I would utilize my network to help others get introduced to a legitimate product line like GP IBO’s claim. There has been an awful lot of hate flinging in here and I don’t enjoy that, but I understand emotions are heightened and people feel passionate on both sides of this fence. Myles, please provide me with links or direct me to the information I need. I want to make an informed decision that would affect me and the enormous amount of people to whom I could introduce these products. I must look out for myself as well as all of them. Thanks in advance. Take a deep breath everyone.

      • Lars permalink
        July 7, 2013 4:12 pm

        Sorry for grammar errors, misspellings, or incorrect punctuation. Did not spellcheck. Do not care. Points should be abundantly clear and that is what matters

      • Michael permalink
        July 7, 2013 4:36 pm

        “Myles,” it would appear that we have another GP player pretending to be someone else on this blog. Sounds like a “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” trick. We have “Dr.” Lindsey proclaiming to be some great and powerful Oz (yes reference to the movie and a dig at the real Dr. Oz selling out), Come on Mr. Duncan, you can admit it. Everyone already knows it is you.
        He says: “I think it is silly that people think in terms of people having titles being beyond people without them. He doesn’t have an “MD” tag, so I don’t understand why you guys are so upset. People who get a PhD in English are also called, “Dr.”, do you guys realize that?
        Of course we do, but no one with a fake online degree would ever be hired to teach at a reputable school insisting that people call him “Dr.” and using it as a platform to sell health products. Saying that you think it is silly that people care about titles is just absurd, which is why it is illegal to use a fake degree to pull the wool over peoples eyes in TX and many other states. This “Dr.” Lindsey is not claiming to have a PhD in English. He is calling himself “Dr.” to feign credibility to inspire confidence in people to sign up for his MLM and to sell products. He is a fraud.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 7, 2013 11:46 pm

        ““Myles,” it would appear that we have another GP player pretending to be someone else on this blog. Sounds like a “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” trick. We have “Dr.” Lindsey proclaiming to be some great and powerful Oz (yes reference to the movie and a dig at the real Dr. Oz selling out), Come on Mr. Duncan, you can admit it. Everyone already knows it is you.”

        That is pretty hilarious. OK, it’s me. I just invented this Myles Ikenberry bit to fool you, but you’re far too clever for little old Mr. Duncan. Pat yourself on the back, you’re a flipping genius.

        “Of course we [realize that people who get a doctorate in English are also called “Dr.”]”

        Michael, I would like you to please call me Dr. Ikenberry during these discussions (even though you’ve already discovered my true identity, lol), my doctorate is close enough!

  50. July 7, 2013 9:12 pm

    Robert, I said I personally know 8… it doesn’t mean there are only 8. Come on!! Why are you doing this? This is dishonest and terrible debate. And if you know anything about MLM, it takes most people 2 – 3 years to reach the levels we are trying to reach. The company is a little over 4 years old. We are doing quite well. Come on, Robert!!

  51. Robert permalink
    July 7, 2013 9:51 pm

    Yes, I’m sure there will soon be thousands of IBOs making millions of dollars. As far as the “company” being a little over 4 years old….

    #1. GenesisPURE is not a company – its an MLM – also known as a pyramid scheme. Calling it a company is an insult to legitimate companies.

    #2. The average lifespan of an MLM is not much more than 5 years so this baby is about done. You should have got in earlier.

    #3. Math is not on your side. Take your own advice and look up some indepedent information on MLMs (not just the MLM-industry created propaganda spoon fed to you by your cult leaders). 99.9% of MLMs fail. 99.9% of people who join MLMs lose money in them. Those who don’t lose money end up making less than minimum wage considering the required product purchases and the number of hours pitching the scam to others that is required to earn a check. Look up the average income of MLM members who do earn checks. Look up the average lifespan of an MLM company. These are all well-documented numbers and they’re horrific. There’s a reason MLMs are barely legal and there have been many attempts to ban them and make them illegal. But hey, being involved with something that is barely legal is between you and your own moral fabric (which is apparently tissue paper thin).

    #4. Try to put together a list of credible CFAs, CPAs, business attorneys, and other credible financial professionals who recommend joining an MLM as a wise financial move. BTW, Donald Trump, fake doctors with print-at-home degrees, and Hollywood celebrities are not credible financial professionals.

    If after all that you still think MLMs are smart or ethical or moral to be involved in then you need your head examined. But hey, you can’t save people from themselves. There’s a sucker born every minute. GenesisPURE won’t be around 5 years from now and even the most diehard IBO knows it which is why none of them quit their “normal” jobs – because they know they better not commit totally to this pyramid because all pyramids collapse.

    But I guess we will see who’s right, won’t we? Don’t say people didn’t try to warn you.

    • Dakota R. permalink
      July 8, 2013 10:23 am

      The Moomiyo Edge and e2 Energy GP supplements in the sports line are two more examples of essential money pits. Look at the ingredients:

      Moomiyo (Shilajit): a sticky tar/oil found in the Caucasas and Altai Mountains. Ok…

      “Mumijo/shilajit has been the subject of scientific research in Russia and India since the early 1950s. Though there is no clinical study to support any benefits to human health, some observed effects in animal models.”

      So only “observed effects” on animals, huh? No clinical trials on humans?

      Moomiyo Edge has Purple Orchid Extract (which I searched for and found NOTHING except that it’s common usage lies in cosmetic products and eye serums. Ok, so why is this going into my body?)

      Codonopsis Root (all I got were mass links to other scam companies selling this mystery root. Apparently it’s a Korean natural medicine. Found no verified studies on this.)

      Golden Root Extract (Sorry, but this one is debunked)

      “In a study sponsored in part by the American Phytotherapy Research Laboratory, a company with ties to the marketers of such supplements as Oxydrene and Ripping Gel, the herb rhodiola rosea was tested along with a stabilized oxygenated supplement in water to determine if either of these two could positively affect blood oxygenation in people put in a simulated environment of 15,000 feet altitude. Typically at this altitude, altitude sickness occurs and the treatment given (for prevention mostly) is acetazolamide and dexamethasone.
      It’s important to recognize that the rhodiola herb used is also in the supplement Oxydrene. The study participants had to breath hypoxic air for an hour (13.6% oxygen balanced nitrogen at an ambient barometric temperature of 633 torr). The study participants did this breathing (hypoxic air) for three treatments and took the supplements for seven days.
      The results strongly indicate that neither the placebo nor the two supplements tested had any effects on blood oxygenation levels (PaO2 and SaO2). The only thing that the study authors noted was that they found a valid method of simulating altitude. Based on this, it appears that rhodiola containing supplements only make the wallet lighter without having any benefit to the consumer.”

      Vasica Extract (This one really got me. Seriously, google it. You find nothing but nonsensical gibberish about suppliers, and worse, apparently Vasica has only been tested and examined on usage through rabbits, guinea pigs, and rats to test coughing reactions and monitor biomechanical liver enzymes. So you’re taking something that has not even been tested for human consumption nor proven to be effective for anything.)

      And finally, an Adaptogenic blend. No need to breakdown the two, because as far as adaptogenics are concerned:

      “Adaptogens are plants that practitioners of herbal medicine claim decrease cellular sensitivity to stress. The adaptogen concept does not fit easily into the Western model of medicine, and the scientific community calls into question the validity of the concept. Most of the studies done on adaptogens were conducted in the Soviet Union (prior to its dissolution in 1991), Korea, and China during the 1980s, and they are not considered conclusive and have been criticized for having methodological flaws. Adaptogens have been claimed to treat a wide variety of medical conditions, from fatigue to cancer. However, no herbs that are considered adaptogens have ever been conclusively shown to be effective in treating any medical condition, and as a result, none of them are approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to cure, treat, or prevent any disease.”

      So WHAT exactly are consumers paying for in Moomiyo Edge?

      e2 Energy:

      240 mcg of Vitamin B-12. 4,000% of a standard daily value. Read the label. 4000%! Is GP trying to kill people?

      “The non-toxic amount a day is 100mcg a day and 100 mcg pr. day is actually a pretty high dose, unless you have a deficiency. The recommended dose for a normal adult is much lower then 100mcg.”

      Symptoms of too much B-12:

      “Even without having had any Vitamin B12 injections, individuals who run naturally high Vitamin B12 and cobalt levels (which may include patients with mitral valve prolapse), tend to frequently suffer from tachycardia, panic-anxiety attacks, or angina-like chest pains, that may be accompanied by numbness and tingling in the face or extremities.”

      The “Energy Complex” is full of crap. It’s supposed to be the central potency in the product…aside from the standard mill of micronutrients that you can get out of any multivitamin, not to mention the unsafe dosing of B-12… Yet the energy blend is CRAP. First of all, Glutamine has been widely, widely debunked across the fitness industry. It’s a miracle people are still buying it.

      http://www.jssm.org/vol2/n4/7/v2n4-7pdf.pdf

      http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/93/3/813

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10683095&dopt=Abstract

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17111006&query_hl=17&itool=pubmed_docsum

      Then we move on to Tyrosine which isn’t even an essential amino acid. It’s non essential, which means our body produces it naturally and therefore supplementation is not required. There is no reason we need additional Tyrosine.

      Leucine/iso-leucine are essential but likely underdosed being so far down on the energy blend list. Even if they weren’t, they aren’t going to have any affect on energy levels because that isn’t what they do. And these aminos can both be found in wheat, milk, fish, beef, oat, peanuts, etc.

      Taurine isn’t even an amino acid, to be technical. It’s just marketed as one. Moving on.

      Malic acid. LOL.

      Valine:

      “Valine is often used by bodybuilders, (in conjunction with leucine and isoleucine), to promote muscle growth, tissue repair and energizer, although little scientific evidence supports these claims.”

      Basically, both of these products do absolutely nothing. So why are people buying them? It’s a scam. You can get the exact same health benefits out of a high protein, moderate carb diet with healthy fats and unprocessed foods. The overdosing of B Vitamins, product filler consisting of useless Glutamine and Tyrosine, and some vitamin A and C that you can get out of any off the rack health store?? Where’s the Iron? Where’s the Zinc? I mean, e2 is a WORTHLESS MONEYPIT. Break down the nutrition label yourself if you don’t believe me. Look at what you’re paying for. It’s ridiculous.

      The Moomiyo speaks for itself. There is absolutely nothing but insubstantial “myths” applied to the “science” of that product. Do the research like I did and see how worthless it truly is.

      People can save a ton of money by doing researching. A healthy diet, a reliable multivitamin, plenty of water, good sleep, and exercise is all you need. All of this damn tar found in Pakistani Mountain regions or Golden Root extract is not the “secret” to a healthier body. Damn, it’s sad seeing people so clueless.

      • July 8, 2013 5:33 pm

        When you go looking for ways to debunk the truth, you will always find it. If you go about your research find support for something, you will also find it.

        I have found nothing but good evidence about its effectiveness. I have taken through out the last 2 years and love everything about it. The overall well being it gives you to the incredible workouts and recovery that it allows me to achieve. There has been a lot of studies on it from russia, but many people try to discredit it for no reason. I think it has to go with the normal standards now days, because anything man made is better than mother nature which is totally wrong. People discredit it because of the complexity , and the incomprehension behind it’s mechanisms. I would like to hear some feedback.

        Moomiyo is a dark, bitter-tasting resin exuded from rock in certain mountain areas of Central Asia. The natural processes that create Moomiyo are complex and still somewhat mysterious, but it is primarily concentrated plant sedimentation that has interacted with minerals in the surrounding rocks.

        Key nutrients in Mumio include Fulvic acids, Humic acid, humin and hymatomelanic acid. In addition there are more than 50 micro-nutrients including polyphenols, essential oils, amino acids, B-complex vitamins, fatty acids and bioavailable ionic minerals.

        The Russians have been researching the properties of Moomiyo for over 90 years. They believe it works in 4 main ways:

        1. Adaptogenic
        Adaptogens are natural substances that increase the body’s resistance to stress and fatigue. Many regard Altai Moomiyo as the most powerful adaptogen known.

        During training and competition you experience severe physical and mental stresses. Moomiyo helps your body to cope and re-energise.

        As an adaptogen it is thought that Moomiyo chemically bonds with hormones related to stress, helping to minimise the negative effects.

        2. Anabolic
        Moomiyo supports the natural development of muscle and strength. American and Russian tests show significant improvement in lean muscle mass for strength athletes and natural bodybuilders using Moomiyo.

        It seems that Moomiyo protects naturally occurring sex hormones from oxidation, making them more available to promote muscle growth in response to strength training.

        3. Anti inflammatory
        Moomiyo is an important anti-inflammatory in traditional Asian medicine, and Russian athletes have long valued its ability to reduce muscle and joint soreness.

        Recent research by Russian and Korean scientists has shown that fulvic acid fractions from Moomiyo are potent scavengers of superoxide radicals, which would help account for Moomiyo’s anti-inflammatory properties.

        4. As a general tonic
        For thousands of years and in many cultures, Moomiyo has been highly prized as a general tonic and remedy. Modern research indicates that Moomiyo may indeed have a role to play in the healing of many ailments, from knitting broken bones to fighting cancer.

        To provide these widespread benefits, Moomiyo must be supporting the body in fundamental ways.

        As an example, let’s take just one ingredient: Fulvic Acid.

        Clearly, effective mineral metabolism is vital for health and many people suffer from deficiencies. Moomiyo supplies a range of bioavailable minerals, and it seems the Humic and Fulvic acids in Moomiyo work together in complex ways to support the uptake of these minerals (and other nutrients) by the cells.

        Other reported benefits of Fulvic Acid include:

        Increasing metabolism of proteins, contributing to DNA and RNA synthesis Restoring electrochemical balance, improving cell functioning Increasing activity of many enzyme systems, supporting a wide range of biochemical processes Supporting immune system function, reducing the risk of infection

        Heres some more info :

        Mumie has been used in the folk medicine of different countries for almost two thousand years. In Russia, serious research has been conducted on Mumie since 1910. There, Moomiyo is considered a strategic material and is used extensively as a performance enhancer within the armed forces (Spetnaz, and other elite fighting groups), to help prepare cosmonauts before and during space travel, and as an important part in national and Olympic-level athletic programs.

        In order to locate the origin of the word Mumie, one must go back 2,500 years. The ancient philosopher and scientist Aristotle proposed the first procedures for preparing and utilizing the compound. Mumie is often used to treat bone fractures, strains of muscles ligaments, stomach disorders, nervous and cardiovascular problems, inflammation of joints, and impotence. It is a good bio-stimulator and serves to elevate the immune system and regulate neuro-hormonal levels. The most recent survey of the practical applications of Mumie have come from Moscow through the efforts of Dr. A.A. Altamyshev and Dr. B.K. Kortshubelkov, and this survey is supported by the Russian committee of cosmonautics. To date, several hundred investigations have been conducted on Mumie which clearly show its actions on the body and its usefulness. In sport, Mumie is prized for its tonic and anabolic effect. According to many coaches inside the Russian national program, a budget of five million rubles was allocated for research on Mumie as a natural anabolic for the preparation of athletes for the 1988 Olympic games in Seoul.

        Climatic conditions play an important role in the formation of Mumie. Also, the Tajikistan republic, where Moomiyo originates, is home to over 6,500 different plants, over half of which are not found anywhere else in the world. This great variety of highly bio-active material, combined with the proper climate (temperature, light, and moisture), results in the development of Mumie. From the ceilings of high mountain caverns hang black stalactites having the characteristic smell and bitter taste of Mumie. For this reason, Mumie has been referred to as “mountain tear”, “blood mountain” and “balsam of rock”. It is the end product of the lush plant life at the crest of the mountains. Moomiyo is only collected from the floors of caverns, and because it accumulates no more than twice a year, Mumie is a rare find. A kilo of extract may require the collection of many raw kilograms over a period of one month.

        Short term cycles are all that is necessary to enjoy the stimulating (restorative and anabolic) effect of Mumie in sport. These cycles are often repeated after a break. The effects include the activation of the anabolic process in different organs and systems (blood, liver, skeletal muscles, lymphatic system, central and peripheral nervous systems, skin and hair, and gastro-intestinal tract). Because of its growth-promoting ability, Mumie has become extremely popular among Russian and other East-European athletes. Mumie is commonly introduced during periods of high-intensity training and in recovery. One good example of the successful use of Mumie was its application by the 1992 Olympic champion in hammer throw, Andrey Abduvaliyev. Andrey is a native of Dushanbie, the capital of Tadjikistan – home of the highest-quality Mumie in the world (Barlowe’s Moomiyo Extract is from Tadjikistan). Andrey’s pharmacology and nutritional program focused on Mumie as the major bioactive supplement.

        There is one other aspect of the application of Moomiyo to sports and general health, which relates to the fact that it is a strong adaptogen. Like other adaptogens, Mumie can be effective at preventing age-related hormone-dependent disorders and so, should be strongly considered as a nutrient for non-competitive athletes who participate in fitness programs. It has been postulated (A.V. Blagovestshensky, Kologrivova, 1985) that the stimulating attributes of Mumie relate to its high content of dicarbonic acids (succine, glutamic and aspartic). These bioactive compounds appear in the final substance as a result of oxidative deamination of amino acids during the lengthy formation of Mumie (V.A. Vib, 1981). The same mechanism is thought to be responsible for Mumie’s outstanding anti-inflammatory and healing effect. It is very beneficial at reducing the joint soreness of knees, shoulders and elbows of athletes.

        Research Ref :

        1. Abu Ali Ibin Syna, The canon of physician’s science. Tashkent, 1956.
        2. Altamyshev A.A., The medicinal treasure of Kirgizia (of natural origin). France, 1976.
        3. Altamyshev A.A., Kortshubekow B.K., What we know about Mumie. Moscow, 1989.
        4. Anitshkov S.V., The selective action of transmitters. Leningrad, 1974.
        5. Bosse G., The vitamin plants and their nutritional application. Moscow, 1943.
        6. Voinar A.O., The biological role of microelements in the organisms of animal and humans. Moscow, 1953.
        7. Wolf E.V., The world resources of beneficial plants. Leningrad, 1969.
        8. Zelinsky S.S., The medicinal plants in the USSR. Moscow, 1958.
        9. Kovaleva N.G., Healing by plants. Moscow, 1971.
        10. Mashlovsky M.D., The medicinal compounds. Moscow, 1992.
        11. Nuraliev Y., Denisenko H., Mumie and its medicinal properties. Dushanbe, 1997.
        12. Syrova N.M., Revealing the secrets of Mumie. Tashjent, 1969.

  52. Dakota R. permalink
    July 8, 2013 7:07 pm

    Oops, I also forgot.

    BOOM! LOL. What a joke.

    • Dakota R. permalink
      July 8, 2013 11:40 pm

      “And we are tired of you parlaying everything pro as a shill.”

      Who, exactly, is “we” here? Best I can tell, you are the only person pro GP in this entire blog. Save for a few skepticists and your fake alias.

      And no, there is no “probably.” There is no guesswork involved. He isn’t supportive of anything. You blatantly ignored the fact that I went through this individual’s post history on the Bodybuilding.com forums and each and every single one of them was a blatant advertisement for Moomiyo. I have been a forum member there for over 4 years and normal posters do not do that. It is massively extensive forum that covers and endless array of topics. That user went through the Miscellaneous section, the Nutrition section, the Sports section, etc posting endlessly about Moomiyo amidst posters claiming it’s INEFFECTIVENESS. He might as well have been a Moomiyo bot. His reputation level was RED, an indicator that anyone that saw those posts quickly dismissed it as the fodder that it is and negged him through the online reputation system. See, those forums are well respected and are very high traffic. The rep system allows people to swiftly browse through topics and know to ignore the RED users, namely trolls, shills, spammers, or complete idiots, and take note of the GREEN users. These are people who can rationally put together topics and conversations in a thoughtful manner. The guy was nothing more than a shill for the product and it’s blatantly obvious. Go look for yourself unless you’re worried about being proven wrong. In fact I believe he’s banned now.

      The fact remains that your post proved nothing. I showed clinical studies. You dismissed my post stating that I only went searching for evidence against Moomiyo, and post an Internet shill’s own bullshit as if it is supposed to hold any more credibility than Genesis Pure’s spiel. That alone completely disintegrates whatever rebuttal you thought you had against me.

      And funnily enough, you have absolutely nothing to say in defense of the e2 that I very readily exposed.

      Grow up.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 9, 2013 12:13 am

        I’m swamped at work so no time for long discussion. I read your post and saw no clinical studies showing moomiyo ineffectiveness. Please link again for me.

      • Dakota R. permalink
        July 9, 2013 12:17 am

        Hey Mark, time to pull your head out of your ass and quit acting blind to the obvious. All it took was a bit more reading on the very same thread you pulled your trash from to see that this poster was a shill for TycolaPro.

        If anybody wants to laugh until their sides burst visit http://www.tycolapro.com and notice that how similar it is to GenesisPure’s own web page. Seriously, these scam artist’s need to get some better web hosts. If the shiny, artificial interface isn’t enough to scare off people, the lack of studies, legitimate testimonials, or prices listed on the web page will. Look, Mark, it’s TycolaPro! You better jump on that bandwagon after GP folds.

        I mean, look at what TycolaPro promotes through their own “miracle products” — ISF (Inner Strength Formula) w/ Cacao Extract and Green Coffee Bean (there’s that darn Green Coffee Bean!)…

        Let’s see:

        – Provides balanced and sustained energy
        – Supports cellular growth and regeneration
        – Boosts mental clarity and well-being
        – Helps burn fat and improve muscle function
        – Reduces stress and uplifts mood

        Wow… That sure does sound familiar, doesn’t it?

        I mean look at some of this guy’s posts…

        “I know the supplier who supplies Moomiyo to Ascential and TycolaPro.”

        (Obviously setting up his direct link for “discounted prices” through his “contact” that will return him a profit)

        “Moomiyo helps absorb Creatine and other supps.”

        (He’s spouting BS even his own company doesn’t even spout. He’s more desperate than you, Mark!)

        “The information that I have posted is public knowledge and facts.”

        (Absolutely no comment necessary for the above lie)

        And the crem de la creme…

        “If you want peer reviewed studies then most likely its going to be for a pharmaceutical company and a drug. Like PFizer who did a study on P57 from hoodia and have an interest to make it a drug. The studies done on Moomiyo are old because during that time the russians needed to find a substitute for steroids and they put the money in for research and time needed to find the strongest adaptogens and strength enhancers. After that time no more money was funneled in to studies because they achieved what they set out for. If the money was put in to it, like other natural extracts,products, they would show tons of positive results and all the stuff that was presented on here. For the fulvic acid and humic acid mentioned, that is only a fraction of the active in moomiyo like mentioned above, If you take a fulvic or humic acid product it does not give any benefits like Moomiyo as a whole has to offer.”

        LOL.

        See, Mark. I saved you the time and hassle it would have taken you to scroll down a smidge further to discover that this poster was a shill for another MLM, just like you, that promotes Moomiyo, just like Genesis Pure. It’s a vicious cycle, and it’s not hard to spot the desperate salesman pitch a mile away.

        Look out, Genesis Pure, you’ve got another uprising miracle nutrition company and it’s name is TycolaPro! LOL.

        And Mark, now before you start saying that TycolaPro doesn’t sell worthwhile product, let me remind you that they have a clinical studies link on their website! They also have a testimonial section! That means these products work!

        Half-assed joking aside, you WILL in fact tell me the products they sell aren’t worth anything, disregarding the fact that the IFS contains all of the same bullshit that Lindsey Duncan promotes so heavily. Tell me, what makes GP’s snake oil any more effective than TycolaPro’s?

        BOOM!

      • July 9, 2013 6:15 am

        Ok… for once I thought you might be on to something… I went to the website to get a good laugh and see something similar to Genesis PURE website. You either posted the wrong website, or you are just reaching really high to make a point. These websites have nothing in common other than a search bar and a menu bar. The companies are nothing alike and they don’t have Dr. Lindsey Duncan. So I didn’t laugh and am starting to think now that your sense of humor is lacking as well as your grasp of nutrition. Everything you say about nutrition is bunk yet you claim to be a body builder or at least read their sites. I can point you to reputable body builders that swear by this stuff and because they love the stuff so much they are now distributors. My good friend is a personal trainer and a sought after one at that and he swears by this stuff. Now he just put his personal training on hold to pursue GP full time. His whole life he has been approached by the not so stellar product pushers of GNC and other MLM and never bit. He bit and is hooked with GP because it is stellar.

        Boom!

      • July 9, 2013 6:08 am

        No… there are more of us here than you care to recognize.

        So he supports Moomiyo and loves to rant about it. Doesn’t discredit it nor the studies that show its effectiveness.

        You have shown nothing in your post that is why it was not recognized by anybody and I doubt that you are even on the bodybuilding forum. You probably went there for the first time yesterday with a cut past search of my narrative to see where I got it from. Nice try.

        And Moomiyo’s efficacy is well documented by testimony as well as study… numerous, even thousands of times.

        Boom!

  53. Myles Ikenberry permalink
    July 9, 2013 12:20 am

    OK, I took the bait and looked it up for myself. Jeez…. Look at this! Pretty cool I think…

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ptr.5018/full

    “Shilajit (mumie; moomiyo, mummiyo) has been used for a wide variety of illnesses and conditions for many years. However, relatively few well-controlled human studies have been conducted on the effects of shiliajit, although a growing number of studies have been published in recent years involving animal and in vitro systems. The safety of shilajit is well documented based on animal and human studies. Various research studies indicate that shilajit exhibits antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, adaptogenic, immunomodulatory, and anti-dyslipidemic properties. Animal and human studies indicate that shilajit enhances spermatogenesis. Furthermore, animal and human data support its use as a ‘revitalizer’, enhancing physical performance and relieving fatigue with enhanced production of ATP. Key constituents in shilajit responsible for these effects appear to be dibenzo-α-pyrones and fulvic acid and their derivatives. Various mechanistic studies provide support for the above observed effects. Additional well-controlled human and animal studies involving the use of standardized products are needed.”

    Ummmmm….. looks just like the original topic of this blog that brought us all here…green coffee beans…. I have taken moomiyo and I thought I could feel it significantly. I realize that doesn’t prove anything of course… but that study I linked is pretty awesome!

    Back to work, ugghh… because I’m going to be a doctor, lol

    • Dakota R. permalink
      July 9, 2013 1:10 am

      Myles,

      Again. I saw that study in my research. I even quoted another article from NCBI in my first comment. Read the opening and closing of the article you linked.

      “However, relatively few well-controlled human studies have been conducted on the effects of shiliajit, although a growing number of studies have been published in recent years involving animal and in vitro systems.”

      I noted the animal and in vitro trials in my original post. I can only assume the human controlled studies are the outdated Russian experiments unless you can otherwise link me to some. Because I found none. All you’re providing here is more claims of what Moomiyo is purported to do. I’m looking for factual evidence of what it DOES do. I saw all the same stuff you think you are just now uncovering.

      And again, at the end of the article:

      “Additional well-controlled human and animal studies involving the use of standardized products are needed.”

      The effectiveness of this mountainous tar has not been proven one iota. And I already covered every other ingredient listed in the nutritional facts of the GP Moomiyo with legitimate articles, links and/or quotes on the unfounded claims of the remaining filler, like Golden Root and whatever it was they use in cosmetics and eye serums. Again, why is this being ingested?

      This stuff’s potency in any aspect of our health is unknown. Hence, marketers can essentially pull from any insubstantial claims online and make it work for what they’re trying to sell. Genesis Pure says it supports lean muscle, aids in mental and physical stress, provides oxygen to the body, and provides nutritional support for adjusting to higher altitudes. Why the last one is even promoted is beyond me. Are we supposed to take this before we board a plane?

      Anyway, that’s GP’s take. While TTFit.com promotes their own Moomiyo as more or less strictly anabolic. They are making it sound like it’s as potent as a prohormone, yet found naturally, which is completely ludicrous. It’s Tribulus all over again.

      • July 9, 2013 6:18 am

        LOL… sure you saw this study in your research… sure you did. And of course you would find fault with it… unless the study showed that Moomyio Extract was lacking… then it would be your flagship.

        Boom!

    • July 9, 2013 6:17 am

      Boom!

      • Dakota R. permalink
        July 9, 2013 1:21 pm

        Again, your arrogance is showing. My Bodybuilding profile is “Redwine91.” If you care to see for yourself, I’ve been there since 2010. Nice try.

      • July 9, 2013 3:58 pm

        I don’t believe anybody should ever be afraid of showing who they are. Most of you here hide who you are, I don’t and some others don’t, but you do. Redwine91 has no profile picture there either. Shows me that you are embarrassed and probably need some GP Sportsline… or you are a wannabe who doesn’t really follow through with body building. I could be wrong, I admit, but that is how it seems.I also don’t know if Redwine91 is really Dakota.

      • Robert permalink
        July 9, 2013 6:07 pm

        Generally speaking, it’s not a good idea to disclose specific personal identifying information about yourself online.

        #1. A lot of weirdos out there. Using your real first and last name lets them find you very easily. Where you live, where you work, your phone number, your friends, your kids, what kind of car you drive, everything…in a matter of minutes with minimal effort.

        #2. Nearly all employers, banks, insurance companies, etc. do basic online research these days – both on existing and potential employees/customers – and they don’t need your permission or knowledge in order to do it. Some random comment you made online may impact your ability to get a future job or promotion or credit without you ever knowing it or having an opportunity to respond – not just today, but for the rest of your life.

        #3. The person you are today is not the person you were 25 years ago…..and probably not the person you will be 25 years from now. The internet is forever. I wouldn’t want people judging me today on the person I was at 19 years old. And the 75 year old me probably doesn’t want to be judged on the person I am today. Once you put something out there it is out there until your death. There’s no taking it back – ever. That’s a pretty scary concept.

        Pretty dumb risk/reward equation if you ask me for the relatively minor benefit using your true indentity.

      • July 10, 2013 5:21 am

        That’s actually good advice.

      • Dakota R. permalink
        July 9, 2013 1:38 pm

        Mark is now not even capable of defending his green coffee bean or the cacao. TycolaPro sells their own version through their own MLM and yet he doesn’t acknowledge this. He doesn’t acknowledge that SweetSweatTV’s BB.com posts are all ads for TycolaPro products. He blatantly ignores the fact that I AM an active member at the BB.com forums and have been for three years.

        Mark, all you’re doing is claiming the effectiness now. Please show me clinical studies that disregard what I’ve already posted saying that MORE STUDIES ARE NECESSARY. I’m not talking about rats and rabbits. Human trials. You failed to acknowledge that every other ingredient in the Moomiyo product is also worthless. You’re not even being rational in your responses anymore. You post gibberish until you can finally seal it with your idiotic “BOOM!” remarks like you’ve proven a point.

        And LOL. If there are more here than I recognize, I guess I’m blind. Please do point out who else here is an ignorant MLM puppet? Myles? Maybe. Everybody is laughing at you.

        I’ve never heard of any reputable bodybuilders taking this stuff. Please do show me. I live out in west Texas. My aunt’s name is Bonny Priest. My uncle is Alan Anderson. They’re married and own The Fitness Zone in San Angelo, TX. Bonnie has placed 4th in the Ms Olympia contest in the past. Not that you’d know anything about bodybuilding, but I assure you, they wouldn’t piss on this stuff. If you don’t believe me, look her up. They strictly use Beverly International Products. They were down this past week for the 4th of July. Had I brought up this GP crap that I almost fell into they would have beaten my ass.

        You’re nothing but an ignorant shill for this fraud brand, this fraud company, a fraud doctor and fraud products. Please tell me what separates GenesisPure from TycolaPro? They sell the exact same damn thing. Is it a fake doctor that separates the two? I mean, they both list clinical studies on their website?

        Lol. This is truly an endless round table. Unfortunately everyone here (even Myles) has a bit of sense except for you. At least he rationally defends these products and I imagine has the intelligence enough to understand in some capacity that he’s involved in fraudulent business. A MLM has it’s reputation for a reason. It’s undeniably hilarious that you won’t wake up and see the light.

        Yes, I’ll be waiting for some snarky, “it’s you who doesn’t see the light” comment followed by BOOM! Please.

        Your entire wall of defense fell apart when people came in here and ripped you a new ass. From one human being to another, I wish your wife and yourself success and happiness. But beyond that, you are essentially scum. I don’t condone the lying or the ignorance you’ve proven to possess. You make your money however you so choose. The world will still be here when you wake up. If you ever do.

        Just LOL at GenesisPure.

      • July 9, 2013 3:55 pm

        Dakota… you’ve been shown.

        Boom!

      • Dakota R. permalink
        July 9, 2013 11:39 pm

        Robert,

        You’re correct in that in that I likely shouldn’t be posting such personal information. I was just trying to prove a point. But I’m also not worried that anybody here is a predator of any sort, haha.

        Mark, I really don’t care if you need further proof that Redwine91 is me. Beyond me sending you an online photo with my face, a piece of paper with “Redwine91” and “Mark Ketchum” on it, there’s no way to prove it. The name is simple: my last name plus the year I was born. You can see the stats on the profile as well, I’m located in Texas and have been my entire life.

        And no, I don’t need GP Sportsline. Half the line has already been exposed as completely worthless. The protein isn’t a bad product but low and behold it’s made of soy and pea protein which first off tastes terrible, and secondly isn’t the most effective for building lean muscle nor are the estrogenic properties of soy. And for my money, I can buy Isolyze Protein which is much purer than GP’s whey.

        By the way, not everybody on the bodybuilding forums is a tried and true “bodybuilder.” There are athletes, fitness models, average joes, men and women of all ages on the forums. Yes, we have some pro and amateur body builders there and even a celebrity or two. I don’t compete, so any picture you think I need online to prove that I weight train is unnecessary. I’ve never had a profile picture nor do I post one on anything online. I don’t even have a Facebook. So take it for face value, I really don’t care either way.

        And no, I haven’t been shown anything. Your replies keep becoming more and more shallow, and a tad ridiculous.

      • July 10, 2013 5:20 am

        Dakota… I started reading your post, but it seems like it is going to be more of a defense type thing, so I had to stop. One can plainly see that you are not an expert on nutrition yet you continue to purport that you are with your “this is better than GP and cheaper… has been exposed to be totally worthless…” etc… please go back to dabbling in fitness and leave the nutrition to the experts like Dr. Lindsey Duncan. Boom!

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 10, 2013 7:03 am

        “A tad ridiculous…” ya think?!

        Ten years from now, someone in HR at Walmart will type into google: “Mark Ketchum..Genesis Pure” and this silly debate will pop up. Guess what? He won’t get that coveted job as a greeter.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 10, 2013 7:18 pm

        I’m truly not concerned regarding employer searches as my career is pretty solid… in both medicine and GP… but no sense drawing unwanted ridicule and easily persuaded people to this site if it can be avoided.

  54. Dakota R. permalink
    July 10, 2013 10:13 am

    He has nothing left to stand on. Now he calls our posts defensive and not worth taking the time to reply to. All it takes is a side-by-side comparison of Isolyze vs GP whey to see Isolyze is clrealy the better product. But that’s just one example.

    I do agree, this is more than a tad ridiculous. It’s laughable at this point. He also painted himself a pretty foolish picture with all of this “BOOM!” nonsense. I mean, let’s be serious here. He’s acting like those trolls you see on the IMDb with their ignorant signatures who argue irrationally over every single point made on them.It’s just tried and true failure at it’s most obvious.

  55. Dakota R. permalink
    July 10, 2013 11:42 am

    Hey Mark,

    I felt so bad for you that I went and recruited you an ally. And guess where I found him? Bodybuilding.com. Perhaps now you don’t have to be so ignorant as to say I’m not a member. If you care to take a look, I pointed him this way to help you out specifically, so he should be making an appearance in this blog comment section within a day or so once he reads my post.

    He’s 23, young and impressionable just like I, and unfortunately hasn’t gotten the wake up call yet about Genesis Pure. Hopefully this is all it will take to change his mind.

    Check it out, Mark. Bottom of the thread. “Redwine91” just like I tried telling you.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147845393&p=1099124753#post1099124753

  56. Fred Lunt permalink
    July 10, 2013 12:34 pm

    This blog really serves a purpose. Now, when Mr. Ketchum attempts to recruit a new sucker, errrr…, I mean IBO…they will go home from the meeting with dollar signs in their eyes only to google “Mark Ketchum Genesis Pure”, and this blog will pop up!

    Wait…Dr. Lindsey isn’t a doctor? He didn’t even attend college? Mark Ketchum, an IBO for Genesis Pure, uses pseudonyms in an attempt to deceive? There are no peer reviewed clinical trials of ANY of the products? This doesn’t sound right. I think I’ll keep my money.

    BANG!

    • July 10, 2013 5:26 pm

      You could be right… however, I wouldn’t want those people anyway… I would want the business builders who would research Dr. Lindsey themselves instead of a landscaper and his cronies… and who might stumble to this website and see truth anyway. Remember, those who are already educated regarding MLM will see right through your vigor and rhetoric and actually listen to somebody who is qualified to make recommendations regarding MLM instead of you… most of you are people who have never tried MLM, or have a family member who tried and quit… most of you, although there is one who’s family is doing quite well and he is still bitter. Don’t get that.

      You see, contrary to your opinions, we don’t seek out easy folkl to take money from… we seek out those like minded people who get it. Which is why I personally recommend going home and thinking about it, praying about it, and then getting back to me. Growing quite well that way.

      Boom!

  57. RN Nutrition permalink
    July 10, 2013 5:43 pm

    I will comment from this point under my new moniker as to follow the advice of Robert not to show names.

  58. RN Nutrition permalink
    July 10, 2013 5:48 pm

    I will employ this moniker going forward per Robert’s advice

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      July 10, 2013 6:16 pm

      No problem, thanks for the heads up Mark. I personally subscribe to the, ‘if it is your opinion, put your name behind it’ school of commenting, but I do understand both sides.

      • Dakota R. permalink
        July 10, 2013 9:26 pm

        Mark has now joined the Bodybuilding forums to try and recruit the young man I was referring to in my comment above. He is using the “RNutrition” moniker there as well, hence the change here.

        Anybody interested in seeing Mark try his salesman pitch can see for themselves here:

        http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147845393&p=1099124753#post1099124753

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 11, 2013 5:03 am

        You are a joke Dakota Fanning… nobody is trying to recruit… the guy is already in Genesis PURE. I was encouraging him. Anybody interested in seeing Dakota’s hatred for anything other than his own thoughts… just look at this blog.

  59. Dakota R. permalink
    July 11, 2013 8:05 am

    Nowhere in that thread did he mention he had joined until you came in and posted and he followed up. And seeing that he has, it has only been very recently. This doesn’t stop anyone else from GP trying to bring somebody else in. The more people involved, the more money goes around through the profit sharing percentage that I’m sure you’re apart of. It doesn’t matter that you’re not trying to recruit him under you. Bruce, a team leader, was trying to recruit me and he wanted me under someone else. You were encouraging him for a reason.

    Hatred? No, no hatred at all. I’ve agreed with 90% of the people in this blog. So I don’t see where you get that I hate anything that isn’t my own thought. The shills for this fraud company is what I disdain, not hate, and I’m only here to help people see that they’re wasting time and money doing this.

    • July 11, 2013 1:20 pm

      Dakota, you are quite the little 12 year old instigator aren’t you? You sound like you are quite young with the arguments you start… with the “Oh check it out! Mark is over here now recruiting! Oh check it out! Mark said this and that!” Grow up.

      Also quit lying.

      It is obvious the gentleman has already joined GP and he is on the site promoting this. His statement,

      “Hell, here’s the only 2 videos you need to watch to educate yourself on Genesis Pure. The products, as well as the business side.

      If you have any concerns or questions about this stuff, send me a PM and I’ll help you out.

      Don’t be afraid to do your own homework on a company that has doubled its profits each year and is about to explode in 2013/2014.”

      This is a guy who is already involved and is trying to recruit. Not the way I would recruit or even the way we teach, but it is what he is doing.

      And I wasn’t tryint to “recruit him for a reason” as it is now apparent that you know nothing about the profit sharing. He would have to be in my downline somewhere for me to make anything and he is not… I was just encouraging him because I actually care about people and not just about my own opinion. While I don’t think everybody will make it in MLM, I sure do believe anybody can make it… especially one like GP where everybody helps and cares how you do.

      • Robert permalink
        July 11, 2013 2:14 pm

        Mark, you are using flawed logic. You routinely ask us to accept the claims of Mr. Duncan based on his celebrity status and his connections to other celebrities. It is literally a textbook example of a specific logical fallacy called “Appeal to Celebrity”.

        Yes, Mr. Duncan has been on many popular television programs making lots of different claims. So what? Lance Armstrong went on all these same television programs proclaiming he never doped and we know how true that was.

        Yes, Mr. Duncan has been a “nutritionist to the stars”. So what? That means nothing. Michael Jackon’s doctor was also a doctor to the stars and he killed him!

        Just because someone says something on TV doesn’t make it true. Can we we at least agree on that? And just because someone is a celebrity or knows lots of celebrities doesn’t mean what they claim is true. Can we also agree on that?

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 11, 2013 2:28 pm

        I don’t care about celebrity status either. Having spent years of my life reading nutritional literature, I can evaluate products on my own. Dr. Lindsey’s advice is generally spot-on, and GP products are excellent, from a supplement evaluation standpoint. I will go into all this later when I have more time. But for the average person, they aren’t going to understand a super-technical breakdown. Pointing out that the wealthiest people in the world who could choose any doctor or treatment center that money can buy often choose Dr. Lindsey and find success with him – that is a legitimate point to make, and easier for the average layperson to understand.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 11, 2013 2:30 pm

        Myles, why do you refer to Duncan as a ‘Doctor’ when it has been clearly demonstrated that he isn’t?

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 11, 2013 2:55 pm

        It has been clearly shown that he got his doctorate from a holistic healing center that is not accredited by whatever government agency who is responsible, I forget. He has 28 years of clinical experience, and everything I have seen from him shows me he knows exactly what he is talking about regarding holistic nutrition and health. I bet he learned a lot during his years at that school, I bet he worked very hard, most nutritionists don’t hold a candle to Dr. Lindsey in terms of knowledge or hard work or clinical experience. I personally think our culture is ridiculously addicted to pharmaceuticals and that our society’s medical doctors should all spend multiple years studying whole foods holistic nutrition instead of having almost no nutritional training whatsoever. In the future, I believe medicine will move toward a nutritional, preventative model in which organic whole foods supplements are used to help the body maintain a state of health, along with exercise and a generally clean diet, obviously. Pharmaceuticals will be much less emphasized, and eventually society’s mainstream view will recognize today’s healthcare system for the deeply flawed system it is.

        One reason I like GP products is that they make people feel better. A lot of Americans (and probably some of you critics on this comment section) are overweight and really struggle to eat healthy and exercise even though they know it is the right thing to do. Getting some solid nutrition in their bodies gives them instant gratification – and like little mice they want to push the health button again. Spending $5 a day and taking their cleanse/balance/build helps them think about their health, and combined with having some energy and feeling better, they are more likely to want to go for a walk/job and skip the McDonald’s. That is a great place to start. No one recommends taking GP products and not exercising/eating healthy, DEFINITELY Dr. Lindsey does not recommend that. GP just gives people a kick-start down the path. The path, adopting a healthy lifestyle – that is another good reason why these products are in an MLM and not just sold in stores. It’s supposed to be a lifestyle change, not just a switch in multivitamins.

        Blah, I have tons of work to do, I value these discussions but honestly this is a bad use of my time at this point. I will gladly give you a longer extensive discussion of these things I have mentioned in a few weeks after I have submitted my dissertation.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 11, 2013 3:24 pm

        Myles!! Yay!! Some common ground! We have found an area where we agree. Certainly not on the doctor part, but on the healthy living part.
        I think you are definitely onto something here with the GP products being an active part or healthy living. That is to say, if you break healthy living down into 2 components, eating well and exercising, eating well is an act of abstention for most people while exercise is an action or act of increase. That is why most people find adding exercise easier than dieting. It is hard to cut back on food intake and eat healthier foods, at least for most people. This constant act of deprivation can wear on a person and psychologically it is much harder to feel successful when winning is constantly not eating junk food. You can measure, monitor and track exercise and you can feel successful right after you work out.
        That is where GP could have value, from a market standpoint. These products offer people an active placebo for eating well. A constant action to remind themselves to eat healthy and an action that can be diminished or reversed if they break from their goal and eat junk food.
        It is like a mantra in meditation. I don’t think the products do much if anything that they claim, but if you buy a talisman and believe that rubbing it or praying to it will keep you strong, then it might help to focus your resolve. I think GP could work in the same way.
        It isn’t cheap as well, and when you tie your reputation up with the success of these products, the motivation to to eat better and exercise increases immensely!! By essentially putting a lot more risk and reward on the line, you will be much more motivated to make a life change.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 11, 2013 4:22 pm

        Placebo… LOL… you sure are reaching… yeah… no nutrition here… LOL. This was the last straw for me… its like a 3rd grader coming up and saying mountain dew is good for you because it tastes good. Take care with Dakota, Robert, and Fred… you guys have the best, most informed blog ever read.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 11, 2013 3:34 pm

        Actually we agree on 2 areas now that I reread your comment. Again, not the doctor part, but the healthcare part.
        I am an incredible supporter of preventative health. I also believe in healing the whole body. I am a fan of Yoga and I have always wanted to make the time for meditation. I believe the benefits would be measurable and valuable for me.
        I exercise quite often, both for fun and to keep a healthy balanced state of mind and body. I eat very well and keep my body weight and fat percentage down to healthy levels.
        I find it shocking to live in a country and a world where we don’t think it odd to prescribe drugs for symptoms of an unhealthy lifestyle and to do so on the level we do, without rethinking our approach to healthcare. Our current system is crisis care and it isn’t sustainable nor is it desirable. I don’t think any country can afford to run a system like this and in time I do see a change to a system based upon health and wellness and good sense.
        The difference between you and I though is that I cannot, for the life of me, see any value to organic whole food supplements. It makes no sense at all, especially when you are eating well. The amount and variety of micronutrients, in terms of phytochemicals, minerals, vitamins, etc that I get in my daily diet is simply astounding! I don’t need any supplementation, especially not from tropical juices. I could see an argument for whole food supplements to the proverbial college student who eats nothing but KD, but not everyone else, and certainly not when they get on board with living a healthy life.
        It doesn’t make much sense to me. For almost everyone, the solution is eat food, not too much, mostly plants, and find ways to enjoy moving your body as often as possible.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 11, 2013 4:28 pm

        First, the products are not simply a placebo effect. You personally could take the cleanse, and no matter what you believe, your number of bowel movements per day would increase. You might even see an increase in acne for the first couple weeks before you see a permanent decrease, if you are prone to that, as toxins are flushed through your skin. I had that experience, so did my wife. You could take the go-yin, and you would have an improvement in overall mood state (more if you are highly stressed). I have definitely had that experience, although my life has been ultra high stress for a few years so the effect may be extremely pronounced in my case. You could take the multi-vitamin, and you would have more energy, I certainly can feel it when I take it. Take all three and you will definitely feel a difference no matter what your diet is or even if your stress levels are low and your bowels contain only vegetables.

        Second, you are simply incorrect to think that your diet has enough nutrients compared to what your body can truly utilize. There was a report introduced to Congress 90 years ago talking about the soils losing minerals and plants having lower nutritional content compared to a few generations ago. Fertilizers compounds the issue by complexing with minerals and removing them from soil, today things are much worse than 90 years ago. There are some groups out there who discuss the world’s soils and mineral contents – the USA has very bad soil mineral loss because we use a lot of fertilizers. The American Medical Association reversed its long-standing position on supplements in 2004 and released two peer-reviewed journal articles concluding that all adults should take a multi-vitamin. That is their official recommendation. There is a handbook of multi-vitamins with evaluations of different multi-vitamins – by the top medical doctors in the nutrition field, from what I understand. The Amazon version which you can preview doesn’t have Genesis Pure’s Build, but it does have Genesis Today’s multivitamin, which is the weaker, less comprehensive, lowered dosed but still pretty decent version.

        Genesis Today’s multivitamin, whose name I don’t recall, gets rated by the unbiased medical doctors as a 3.0/5.0, better than all other MLM multivitamins except Usana, which I think is more expensive, and is in pill form. It also beats most store-bought vitamins. Most of the vitamins that receive higher scores are more expensive, and generally they are pills, which I personally do not think are as good as liquids, but I grant that this point is somewhat questionable. There is a Physician’s Handbook reference from a ways back, 1994 I think but that’s just a guess, which says that pills are not generally absorbed by the body, perhaps only 10%, while liquids are absorbed almost completely, at around 97%. I think that number for pill absorption is a bit too low, but I don’t have any recent references, I couldn’t find any. In my unproven, lacking-in-evidence opinion, I would bet 50% of a solid pill is absorbed. But, those nutrients are going to be absorbed over time as they are released from the capsule into the bloodstream. Synergestic vitamin and mineral utilization is a complex biological phenomenon which is very difficult to study, but we know it is a real thing, at least for things like calcium and vitamin D. So, in my personal opinion, liquid multivitamins are superior, and GP Build is by far the best on the market, and the best value.

        There are also other studies discussing how modern American adults have bodies with lots of toxins, one of them discusses how the bio-accumulating highly degradation-resistant DDT molecule is still found today in 99% of mothers’ breast-milk (in trace quantities). Our bodies truly can use some detoxification, and Dr. Lindsey’s mix of concentrated herbs and roots is a great way to go about it, although the taste of concentrated herbs and roots, as you might imagine, is mind-blowingly nasty. The first time I took it, it was the worst thing I had ever tasted, like a mix of robitussin and black licorice. I am pretty used to it now, I use a chaser! It’s not that bad any more.

        So, back to my original points, none of these are placebos, and your body does indeed benefit from taking (whole foods based) vitamins. When I was introduced to GP, Go-Yin was the product I was most skeptical of. I tried it anyway, and I really like it a lot. I feel like it does wonders for my mood and energy. Go-Yin is based on a formulation by one of the best Chinese-medicine practitioners in the world, a personal friend of Dr. Lindsey he met during his clinical work. Chinese medicine is not always effective, but Go-Yin is an awesome product.

        You should just try this stuff for yourself and blog your experience. 🙂

      • Robert permalink
        July 11, 2013 6:02 pm

        Myles, please cite me a single medical doctor that recommends colon cleansing as a way to remove toxins from your body.

        Myles it’s quackery.That is not an opinion. That is a fact. Every established medical professional and organization in the United States agrees that colon cleansing to remove “toxins” is unnecessary at best and dangerous at worst. No such thing happens. You’re just giving yourself laxatives that make you poop more often….and throwing away good money to do it. There’s no “toxins” in your body that are being removed. It’s all in your head – not my opinion – medical fact.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 11, 2013 7:16 pm

        Robert – in the “Product Use Guide” it has all that information. Extensive age guildelines for all products, and recommendations for pregnant women, etc. You speak as if you are extremely knowledgeable about GP but everything that you say is a completely lie or half-truth at best.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 5:31 am

        You are talking about “colon cleansing” with equipment… we are talking about natural detoxification… not the same.

  60. Robert permalink
    July 11, 2013 9:12 pm

    Myles….that National Geographic link is not a doctor recommending natural colon cleansing as an appropriate treatment to remove toxins from your body. Again, I am looking for one (just one) medical doctor that agrees with your claim that natural colon cleansing removes toxins from your body.

    Are you telling me you can’t find one single medical doctor in the world who would agree with your claim? I think that is what your saying……and I think it speaks volumes to the health fraud you and people like you are perpetuating.

    You make money propagating a health fraud and personally enrich yourself by convincing people who have nothing wrong with them that they are full of poisons that are making them sick and your magic snake oil will clear out the poison – for a price of course. And frankly, I find that beyond disgusting. I honestly don’t know how you people sleep at night.

    • RN Nutrition permalink
      July 12, 2013 5:37 am

      Robert… I am asking that you find one naturopathic Doctor who thinks that we should leave toxins in our colon… just one… come on… I don’t believe you can do it. All you can do is point to physicians who have only 2-4 hours of nutrition under their belt. Show me a Doctor of Nutrition who doesn’t believe we should get toxins out of our system. It is quackery to think that we should leave them there… quackery I tell you!

      Boom!

      • Robert permalink
        July 12, 2013 9:00 am

        First of all, “naturopathic doctor” is an oxymoron. There are only a tiny handful of states in the country that even recognize this ridiculous quack title.

        Secondly, you cannot prove a negative. I am not the one making outrageous health claims about products that either do nothing beneficial or in some cases can harm you. If you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you to prove your claim true. It is not on others to prove it untrue. Mr. Duncan has never proven any of his claims to be true. He has testimonials, but testimonials are not proof.

        Finally, as I always support my arguments with evidence, I will provide the following additional evidence that GenesisPURE’s “Silver” product is dangerous, even life threatening, to use…..

        http://www.webmd.com/search/search_results/default.aspx?sourceType=all&query=colloidal silver

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 12:42 pm

        there were only a handful of states that recognized that all men are created equal at one time… didn’t make it a quack idea. nice try.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 12:44 pm

        Nice default, “you can’t prove a negative”. It’s not a negative to start a blog and a conversation with… these products are worthless and don’t do anything. Yes, you do have to back that up with proof. That was an affirmative statement using “are” worthless. The negative would be “are not” worthless. So the proof is in your court.

      • Robert permalink
        July 12, 2013 2:33 pm

        Mark, you have been provided clear independent evidence, from reliable sources, and on numerous occassions, that specific claims made by GP are not supported by the facts. In any other debate the evidence you have been provided would be considered more than acceptable by any reasonable person. Your choice to ignore this evidence, bury your head in the sand, and blindly believe anything Duncan says, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary, doesn’t make your claims as an official mouthpiece for Duncan accurate.

        For example, you have been provided clear evidence from independent reliable sources on numerous occassions that…..

        1. Lindsey Duncan’s doctoral “degree” is illegitmate at best, if not outright fictitous. You refuse to believe it.

        2. Silver supplements are medically unnecessary and potentially harmful per the Mayo Clinc – the most respected and reputable medical organization in the country, if not the world. You refuse to believe it, and choose to believe instead the word of the guy who started your MLM and whose highest level of education is a high school diploma.

        3. Colon cleansing is medically unnecessary and potentially harmful per the Mayo Clinic – the most respected and reputable medical organization in the country, if not the world. You refuse to believe it and instead have choose to believe Duncan, again, whose highest level of education is a high school diploma.

        4. Green Coffee Bean is readily available to the general public at significantly lower prices than GenesisPURE. You refuse to believe it.

        5. No independent peer-reviewed clinical trials exist that prove any of the health claims made by GP products. You refuse to believe it.

        Refusing to believe the proof that is provided to you doesn’t make the proof go away.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 2:37 pm

        Duncan has a high school diploma? I would need proof.

      • Robert permalink
        July 12, 2013 3:24 pm

        Hahahaha….that’s a good point! I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, but you’re right, he’s so full of crap I’m not sure I should! LOL!

        He probably purchased that online too! Ha!

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 12, 2013 3:47 pm

        LMAO!!

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 2:44 pm

        Well said Robert!

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 5:44 pm

        Roberta Duncan Lund… just making claims that stuff has happened doesn’t mean that it has truly happened. You stated…

        For example, you have been provided clear evidence from independent reliable sources on numerous occasions that…..

        1. Lindsey Duncan’s doctoral “degree” is illegitimate at best, if not outright fictitious. You refuse to believe it.

        (point to where I refused to believe it)

        2. Silver supplements are medically unnecessary and potentially harmful per the Mayo Clinic – the most respected and reputable medical organization in the country, if not the world. You refuse to believe it, and choose to believe instead the word of the guy who started your MLM and whose highest level of education is a high school diploma.

        (You got me wrong again… I never refused to believe that the Mayo Clinic is saying what you are saying they are saying… I simply disagree because I have been in healthcare for 20 + years as a nurse utilizing Silver and Silver products in wounds, burns, etc… and have seen their effectiveness. I also have noted repeatedly articles and studies that show that Colloidal Silver used safely is effective in reducing and preventing infection).

        3. Colon cleansing is medically unnecessary and potentially harmful per the Mayo Clinic – the most respected and reputable medical organization in the country, if not the world. You refuse to believe it and instead have choose to believe Duncan, again, whose highest level of education is a high school diploma.

        (Genesis PURE doesn’t engage in colon cleansing that is being discussed in any of the articles you presented. Detoxifying the eliminative organs is not “colon cleansing”. The colon cleansing being referred to is via the anus or with chemicals… not natural detoxification)

        4. Green Coffee Bean is readily available to the general public at significantly lower prices than GenesisPURE. You refuse to believe it.

        (Actually, I did agree that there was found a cheaper version… but your claim that it is “readily available insinuates that ours is the most expensive… when in fact it is priced well considering the formulator and type of company it is in).

        5. No independent peer-reviewed clinical trials exist that prove any of the health claims made by GP products. You refuse to believe it.

        (Actually you have been shown by Myles that there are.)

        Refusing to believe the proof that is provided to you doesn’t make the proof go away.

        (Refusing to read what others post and look beyond your nose doesn’t mean that whatever you say or post is fact).

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 12, 2013 5:08 pm

        Toxins are one of the greatest areas of quackery. Yes we are exposed to toxins, yes some toxins are persistent. Still, most of the bi-products of the processes of our body are toxins at one point or another (CO2, Lactic Acid, Alcohol, Uric Acid).
        The body has been doing an unimaginably good job of removing these toxins throughout history. It does this fabulous job without any intervention from us. Sometimes we can be poisoned by toxins, and we need an actual doctor prescribed detoxification. These things exist and they are based upon the toxin we are exposed to. They have literally NOTHING to do with your natural detoxification techniques.
        The thing is, every natural healer believes that they have their own formulation to help support the liver, or the colon to detoxify. Many of these are natural laxatives, as if temporarily speeding up fecal transmission is important or removes more toxins. Many times they use crazy lies, such as the cleanse cleanse out built up gunk on your colon wall. The reality is you do want a faster digestive transmission of waste through your body, but that can be achieved through healthy eating and exercise. In fact, the closest any of you have come to finding support for colon cleansing is eating fibre as part of a healthy and sensible diet. The attempt to scare us into clearing out toxins in our body is the Phlogiston Theory of our time and it is embarrassing!

  61. Michael permalink
    July 11, 2013 11:13 pm

    “Myles” you are just a bit too enthusiastic about supporting a fraudulent doctor, but exceedingly smooth. Why? Why, if you were in fact so busy (I think that I counted this ridiculous utterance at least 10 times so far in your posts) would you spend so much time defending him and his snake oil? I cry foul. You sound just like him and I even noticed that some of your statements sound suspiciously similar to his “Dr. Lindsey” shtick that is all over the internet.
    SCAM! FRAUD! This “Dr.” Duncan is so slippery speaking in half truths and pseudoscience to peddle his wares then, this “Myles” slithers onto the blog and pretends to be here as a scientist while his very long posts are filled with plugs for GP products. It would be hilarious if people were not investing their savings and spending their hard earned money buying into “Dr.” Lindsey’s false hopes of fortunes to be made and miracle cures to be found. He is the only one who is laughing all the way to the bank. Has anyone done a background check or a records search on this con artist?

    • RN Nutrition permalink
      July 12, 2013 5:51 am

      Oh Michael you just like to argue. You don’t care about people and their wallets… if you did you wouldn’t be here talking about GP as there are so many frauds being committed out in the world that defraud the elderly, mentally ill, etc… Why don’t you go out and form a posse on one of those blogs? If you care so much? It is because you don’t care about people you don’t know and their wallets. You just can’t stand that somebody knows more than you and has a different opinion and is making a difference more than you and is being successful in MLM and you are not. Come on! Admit it! that is why you are here.

      • J. S. permalink
        September 2, 2013 10:38 pm

        Actually, he is right to say that Lindsey Duncan and Cheryl Duncan are ruthless and driven by money and do not care who they hurt to get ahead. They divorced on paper right before Genesis Pure was launched because Lindsey Duncan had a child with another woman. I know because I went to grad school with the woman that he had an affair with and she has posted on our yahoo group for help many times and shared how he seduced her with his Dr. Lindsey Duncan shtick and then left her and their baby high and dry. Cheryl knew about it and went along with it which probably explains the Pure Health 100 company that he started for her. Apparently, she agreed to divorce him on paper so that he could get out of paying child support on his income from Genesis Pure. My friend is heartbroken and struggles needlessly to support their child. Lindsey Duncan is a no show dad and a child support cheater! Sorry to inform you Mark Ketchum that your hero is a zero.

  62. Fred Lunt permalink
    July 12, 2013 11:16 am

    Mark Ketchum said “I’m truly not concerned regarding employer searches as my career is pretty solid… in both medicine and GP… but no sense drawing unwanted ridicule and easily persuaded people to this site if it can be avoided.”

    Too late for that Mark. Type your name and Genesis Pure into Google, and there it is, forever and ever!

    Sincerely,
    Dr. Lunt

    • RN Nutrition permalink
      July 12, 2013 1:08 pm

      Dr.Lunt… I just said I wasn’t concerned… that I am pretty set in my career… so why would it be too late? You don’t read before you respond… which is why you don’t understand what you are even saying.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:19 pm

        I know what I’m saying. After getting some good advice from Robert, you changed your name in this discussion from ‘Mark Ketchum’ to ‘RN Nutrition’.. That’s all well and good, but too late. Type your name and GP into a search engine and this discussion will pop up. Too late to change your name, the damage is done!

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:38 pm

        You still type without understanding the other party. I will talk slow for you here.

        I am not concerned with employers searching and finding this. I am securely in my profession with high regard. If others find this looking for GP there is no damage. They will either side with you or not. We don’t want those who are easliy persuaded by bias and illogical nonsense.

        Plus those that already get MLM and know its value, will not even look for anything like this…. they will evaluate the company on cash, reputation, and stability… and we have all three. I know… I have looked at other companies in MLM and have never typed in the name of the person showing it to me… she was a friend… and that is all we show it to… friends.

        Boom!!!

    • RN Nutrition permalink
      July 12, 2013 1:11 pm

      Also… Dr…. it isn’t there forever and ever… you sound like Al Gore and his knowledge of the internet.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 1:21 pm

        Ok, maybe only a decade or so.

    • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
      July 12, 2013 4:12 pm

      LMAO!! That is unfortunate… for GP and Mark… The 5th listing for Mark Ketchum and Genesis Pure goes to a website that says, Unethical, Yes! Disgusting, Definitely! But is it a conspiracy? Let’s hope the GP people don’t use Google, for Mark’s sake. That or the team of people at GP who created the millions of ‘Genesis Pure a scam, you have to read here’ web pages with glowing reviews of the company will have to make more Mark Ketchum pages.

  63. Fred Lunt permalink
    July 12, 2013 12:15 pm

    From Wikipedia: “Since about 1990, there has been a resurgence of the promotion of colloidal silver as a dietary supplement or homeopathic remedy, marketed with claims of it being an essential mineral supplement, or that it can prevent or treat numerous diseases, such as cancer, diabetes, HIV/AIDS, herpes,[9] and tuberculosis.[12][53][54] No medical evidence supports the effectiveness of colloidal silver for any of these claimed indications.[11][12][55] Silver is not an essential mineral in humans; there is no dietary requirement for silver, and no such thing as a silver “deficiency”.[12] There is no evidence that colloidal silver treats or prevents any medical condition, and it can cause serious and potentially irreversible side effects such as argyria.[12] In August 1999, the U.S. FDA banned colloidal silver sellers from claiming any therapeutic or preventive value for the product,[11] although silver-containing products continue to be promoted as dietary supplements in the U.S. under the looser regulatory standards applied to supplements.[11] The FDA has issued numerous Warning Letters to Internet sites that have continued to promote colloidal silver as an antibiotic or for other medical purposes.[56][57][58]Despite the efforts of the FDA, silver products remain widely available on the market today. A review of websites promoting nasal sprays containing colloidal silver suggested that information about silver-containing nasal sprays on the internet is misleading and inaccurate.[59]
    In 2002, the Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) found there were no legitimate medical uses for colloidal silver and no evidence to support its marketing claims.[60] The U.S. National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) warns that marketing claims about colloidal silver are scientifically unsupported, that the silver content of marketed supplements varies widely, and that colloidal silver products can have serious side effects such as argyria.[12]
    In 2009, the USFDA issued a “Consumer Advisory” warning about the potential adverse effects of colloidal silver, and said that “…there are no legally marketed prescription or over-the-counter (OTC) drugs containing silver that are taken by mouth.”[61] Quackwatch states that colloidal silver dietary supplements have not been found safe or effective for the treatment of any condition.[62] Consumer Reports lists colloidal silver as a “supplement to avoid”, describing it as “likely unsafe”.[63] The Los Angeles Times stated that “colloidal silver as a cure-all is a fraud with a long history, with quacks claiming it could cure cancer, AIDS, tuberculosis, diabetes and numerous other diseases.”[64]
    History”

    Personally, I really like that last sentence…

  64. RN Nutrition permalink
    July 12, 2013 1:55 pm

    Alright… guess what I just discovered… Fred, Robert, and Dakota R. are all the same person. Roberta Dakota Lund… And get this… she is an IBO for Viz… an MLM offshoot and competitor for GP. Apparently she is trying to drive business away from GP and to her own company. She is a Black Diamond Elite and this is why she knows so much about MLM and the compensation plan.

    Posting false information to blogs to defend yourself is fun!!

    • Fred Lunt permalink
      July 12, 2013 2:04 pm

      That is simply untrue! I’ve never heard of Viz, I haven’t participated in an MLM for 30 years. I do have a friend who recently got involved with GP. She hasn’t asked me my opinion, and I haven’t given it.

      I know nothing about GP’s compensation plan. I just know a scam when I see one.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 2:13 pm

        Oh its true alright 🙂

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 2:18 pm

        I’m a factory rep for a furniture company. And Mark Ketchum, we’re neighbors! I live in Flower Mound. I have been married for 32 years, have three lovely daughters, and hate liars and thieves. You appear to be both.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 12, 2013 2:27 pm

        You can call and apologize Mark. Please note the Texas area code. 214-695-2673 I’m still waiting on the links.

      • Dakota R. permalink
        July 12, 2013 2:49 pm

        Mark, didn’t you just say you were leaving a few posts up? You’ve “left” and came back several times now. I think if you truly stepped away for good so we don’t have to read your idiotic replies, we could all get together somewhere in Texas and throw a party.

    • Robert permalink
      July 12, 2013 3:21 pm

      I am not a chick and I’ve never heard of “Viz”….but you are correct in one aspect….those at the top levels of MLMs are usually professional MLMers who frequently make their money and run – hopping from one MLM to another right before they collapse.

      Dae Geun Jung who started GP with Duncan has been in at least 10 MLMs. He perfected the “pump and dump” MLM model. He’ll start an MLM, pump them up with IBOs, and when they’ve reached total market saturation he takes the top money earners from that pyramid, starts another MLM with them, and begins the whole cycle over again.

      Don’t you do your research?

      Of course they don’t tell you little guys way on down the downline this at your rah-rah meetings. No they need to make sure you little guys believe that GP is going to last forever, sure! You bet, you’re going to be able to retire with this income, and your “spot” is even willable so you can will it to your kids so they can keep getting income when you die! Yeah, this baby’s going to be around forever. LOL! I don’t which is funnier, the fact that they say this or the fact that suckers like you believe them. They need all you little downline robots out there bringing in THEIR paychecks until the very last moment….when they all jump ship…and guess what? You’re not invited!

      This is how MLMs work. On average, they last about 5 years before reaching maximum effective market saturation and they have to be folded and new one started. After a particular MLM has ran its course, they start a new one and bring the top money earners with them. Or, the top money earners decide on their own to start their own MLM and then recruit top money earners to THEIR own MLM.

      Either way, the outcome is the same – collapse. The nature of MLMs ensures endless recruiting, which ensures accelerated market saturation. Once the point of saturation has peaked the top money earners start falling out. The combination of market saturation with the loss of the top money earners quickly collapses the pyramid….and the thousands of little pee-ons like you who fell for it are all left holding the bag.

      Don’t believe me? Mark, look at GPs founders and current TOPs (top of pyramid)

      Dae Geun Jung – professional lifelong MLMer, founded several of them before GP
      Curtis Call – professional lifelong MLMer, been in a dozen of them before GP
      Brooks Gordon – professional lifelong MLMer, been in a dozen of them before GP
      Moses Yoo – professional lifelong MLMer, been in a bunch of MLMs before GP

      The question you HAVE to ask yourself Mark is what happened to all the previous MLM companies these people were involved in??? Why are they working for GP now??? What makes me think these people are going to be with GP any longer than any of the previous MLMs they were involved in???

      You don’t want to face the answer and I wouldn’t either if I were in your shoes. That answer is they AREN’T going to be in GP much longer because GP isn’t going to EXIST much longer. They are going to cash out, take the best very IBOs with them to start a new IBO, and leave you all in the dust. The most money to be made in an MLM is during the first 5 years when it’s growing. After that growth levels off and income starts falling. You don’t think these MLM pro’s know this fact??? They’re about a year away from bailing. This has been the business plan all along. The Goetz’s and other top IBO already know the next MLM they’re going to be in. If you don’t believe that, your head is definitely buried in the sand.

      • RN Nutrition permalink
        July 12, 2013 5:59 pm

        Don’t believe me? Mark, look at GPs founders and current TOPs (top of pyramid)

        Dae Geun Jung – professional lifelong MLMer, founded several of them before GP
        Curtis Call – professional lifelong MLMer, been in a dozen of them before GP
        Brooks Gordon – professional lifelong MLMer, been in a dozen of them before GP
        Moses Yoo – professional lifelong MLMer, been in a bunch of MLMs before GP

        1. I love how you post “GPs founders and current TOPs” and then only list corporate people. None are founders… Lindsey Duncan is founder. The rest were hired because of their extensive background in MLM. You listed no TOPs here.

        2. Would love to see you list the “dozens” of MLMs these people have been in… while I don’t doubt 2, 3, or even 4… the claim of “dozens” is another attempt to show that they don’t stick, instead of showing that they are in demand and companies woo them.

        3. I know a couple of distributors with GP that have other MLM in their background but would love to see your claim for TOPs that leave and take their MLM with them, showing that they have a history of scam… please 🙂

  65. Fred Lunt permalink
    July 12, 2013 2:42 pm

    Now I get it. “posting false information is fun…” You must be having a ball, because all of the ‘information’ that you post is false. Now we can’t even be sure that you’re a nurse. Perhaps you’re just having fun. Typical MLM crap.

  66. RN Nutrition permalink
    July 12, 2013 7:34 pm

    Hey Myles… I keep coming back to this mess and fueling the demons that love to argue without much to back themselves up other than half truths and exaggerations. I am turning off my notification that keeps luring me back and would ask that you also consider not replying to this mess anymore. You of course can do what you like, but they try to get the last word anyway and will have fun doing that amongst themselves.

    Nice knowing you and God bless and hope to meet you someday… maybe in Utah August 22!!!

    Take care.

    • Robert permalink
      July 12, 2013 10:52 pm

      LMAO….Mark you’re the turd that won’t flush. What is this, the 9th or 10th time you’ve promised to leave and never come back? I’ve lost count.

      • Dakota R. permalink
        July 13, 2013 12:19 am

        Precisely. He’ll be back, one way or another. If not under a new alias, he’ll be reading regardless.

        The fact is he knows he’s wrong about these scam products but he has a financial stake in the company so I’d be trying to convince myself too. I wonder what he’ll be thinking a year from no when GP collapse.

  67. Fred Lunt permalink
    July 13, 2013 9:05 am

    i am genuinely confused. I keep asking for peer reviewed human clinical studies that demonstrate ingesting silver is safe and effective. Mark Ketchum keeps firing back with links on everything BUT those studies. Why would he do that? GP’s own website says that clinical studies (plural) have proven their effectiveness…so show me just ONE!

    On another note…if we keep using MARK KETCHUM ‘s name in this discussion, it will be more likely to come up when people who are considering participating in this scam do their research. Mark Ketchum Mark Ketchum Mark Ketchum Mark Ketchum.

    • Myles Ikenberry permalink
      July 13, 2013 1:20 pm

      I think you should speak to me directly, and quit the childish quibbling with Mark Ketchum. I have given you peer-reviewed journal articles showing how silver kills MRSA. More than one article. You do realize that clinical trials of unproven treatments on deadly diseases are unethical, do you not? Proving the treatments in a petri dish, or in mice, is the established medical procedure for all antimicrobial agents.

      You yourself have linked the Mayo clinic paragraphs discussing how only in rare cases of extremely excessive overdosages does colloidal silver pose a health danger to the human body. And that the most common effect of too much colloidal silver intake is a medically non-threatening condition turning the skin blue. I’m not sure how you can link the evidence yourself and then deny that it exists.

      Given the above facts, I believe you owe me and Mark Ketchum an apology. If you can demonstrate to me that the standard procedure in medical research is to test unproven medications on subject with potentially life-threatening diseases, I will apologize to you.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 13, 2013 1:22 pm

        I meant that clinical trials testing unproven treatments on human subjects with potentially life-threatening diseases (such as MRSA) are unethical. All anti-biotics begin with petri-dish and animal experimentation, that is my point. You can’t discount the studies because that is the established methodology developed by experts in the field, and you are not qualified to discount their approach.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 13, 2013 2:51 pm

        Quacks have been claiming that ingesting small amounts of silver is beneficial for hundreds of years. GP’s own web site states: “Clinical studies have shown Silver, which contains 40 mcgs of silver, supports the natural healthy flora balance and ecosystem of our bodies.” WHERE ARE THOSE STUDIES? Are you saying that proof that it works in petri dishes and on mice means it works on human beings? Is that what GP is claiming on their website?

        I neither want nor need your apology, and you certainly aren’t going to get one from me. We held Mark Ketchum ‘s feet to the fire and he scampered off like a frightened puppy.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 13, 2013 3:51 pm

        Yes, quacks have been claiming that colloidal silver is useful as an anti-microbial to fight infections. And since that is now supported by reams of scientific evidence, your label of quacks is outdated and ignorant. You didn’t hold anyone’s feet to the fire, and you aren’t acknowledging that your own linked evidence shows that colloidal silver is not the imminent danger to human health that Robert’s lies claimed it was. It kills MRSA, which is an unhealthy flora, and in that sense it definitely supports a healthy balance, by killing deadly microbes which could otherwise end a person’s life. I don’t know what studies are being referred to on the GP website, none of us really know, and I don’t have time to find them right now.

        What we do know is that low doses of colloidal silver do not pose a risk to human health, that Robert is a loud-mouthed liar, and that you both cannot see evidence right in front of your face, even evidence you yourself provide in an argument, when it contradicts your own beliefs.

        Tell me again that low doses of colloidal silver are deadly and have no proven uses as an anti-microbial. And don’t apologize. Whatever. Ignore the FDA, Mayo clinic, and multiple peer-reviewed journal articles. Keep your head in the sand and remain convinced you are “holding people’s feet to the fire.” If someone in your group of family and friends gets MRSA, God forbid, and you tell them that colloidal silver is deadly and useless, you are doing them a tremendous disservice, courtesy of your stubborn ignorance.

        I hope they are wise and knowledgeable enough to do their own research and ignore your terrible advice.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 13, 2013 10:01 pm

        Yes, I am telling you that if it works in a petri dish and in mice, then it will almost certainly work in the human body. Ask your doctor what he thinks and let us know.

        From the article I linked you the first time, emphasis mine:

        “Overall, what we show is that small amounts of silver, NON-TOXIC LEVELS, can be used in conjunction with commonly used antibiotics to treat persistent infection and to treat bio-film based infections, which are problematic for medical implants,” Collins said.

        He is talking about levels that are non-toxic to a human. Because as a medical researcher in the field, he knows that these results are likely to create a new method of treating MRSA’s.

        You said if there was a peer-reviewed journal saying that it was non-toxic in the human body, and effective in killing MRSA’s, you would apologize. This is almost exactly that, although you can keep your head in the sand and say that you don’t believe that medical researchers are more qualified than you to say what is and is not translatable from petri dish/mouse research into the human body.

        Apology time. Thanks.

        Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/06/19/bacterial-bling-adding-silver-to-antibiotics-boosts-effectiveness/#ixzz2YzbmZbiy

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 14, 2013 10:09 am

        “You said if there was a peer-reviewed journal saying that it was non-toxic in the human body, and effective in killing MRSA’s you would apologize.”

        I NEVER said any such thing. Silver in small amounts is not toxic. I know that. It just has not been proven to be effective on human beings. POP!

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 13, 2013 10:04 pm

        Vaughan, one of my comments from before is awaiting moderation. It has this link:

        http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/la902844r?journalCode=langd5

        Check out the authors of this peer-reviewed journal article on the (somewhat different from what we are talking about) bacteria-destroying particles of silver nanoparticles. Thanks.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 14, 2013 10:17 am

        Are you saying that this study proves that ingesting small amounts of silver is effective and beneficial for human beings? You are definitely reaching.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 14, 2013 12:34 pm

        No, that study is different, that is not what I am claiming. I linked it just to show you the authors.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        July 14, 2013 12:36 pm

        I want to see the studies that show that silver is safe and effective on human beings. You know, the studies that are mentioned on GP’s own website.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 14, 2013 1:50 pm

        Why don’t you email the Mayo clinic and ask them, since you linked their statement that the only side effect is a non-damaging cosmetic condition, except in rare cases of extreme overdose? I’m sure they have the studies. Or you can learn to Google, I’m just too busy right now, but in a few weeks I will have more time to hold your hand and walk you through it.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 14, 2013 11:59 pm

        Sorry about that, I don’t actually have to approve most of the comments from frequent commenters, but every once and awhile it holds one up in moderation. I think I got it.

      • YouAreNotAFitPerson permalink*
        July 14, 2013 11:07 pm

        True, but before being approved for use, possibly in conjunction with various antibiotics, the silver will need to go through a considerable amount of human testing for safety. It hasn’t gotten this far it would seem.

        In any case, Myles, I hadn’t done any research on silver until this discussion came up, as I am involved in researching weight loss. Silver can be harmful, although you are completely right, an overdose that causes more than skin discolouration is rare. The thing is, the skin discolouration is permanent. What it can do to people is amazing!! Still, the stories I have come across indicate that the unfortunate people who buy the machines that make the silver water are the ones most likely to overdose, although if you click this link you also get a tale of a poor woman who was prescribed silver nose drops as a child.
        So, the odds of serious harm coming to you from taking Silver, in the form and dosage that Genesis Pure recommends are very, very small it seems. As well, Silver is an anti-microbial which may have a role in the delivery of future antibiotics, especially with respect to MRSA’s. All of this being the case, I look at the claims of Genesis Pure on their website and I am angered:

        Every day your body is exposed to harmful bacteria, viruses and pathogens which can lead to a variety of illnesses. In addition to these attacks on your immune system, recent discoveries of superbugs that are resistant to modern medicine pose an even bigger threat to our health and well-being. For thousands of years, silver has been used to keep water and food safe as well as its medicinal properties. Today, Genesis PURE brings you the newest, nano-particle silver technology on the market.*

        Genesis PURE Silver contains SilverSol technology, proven to help boost the immune system to defend against a variety of bacteria, yeasts and viruses. Genesis PURE Silver provides powerful immune support with 10ppm (parts per million) of silver. It is non-toxic and non-irritating so it can be taken orally or applied topically.*

        Recommended Use

        Adults: 1 teaspoon (5 pumps) up to three times daily.

        Children: 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon (up to 3 pumps) once daily.

        Key Benefits

        Helps boost the immune system to defend against a variety of bacteria, yeasts and viruses*
        Doctor recommended*
        Scientifically tested*
        Safety tested*
        Patented process and uses*
        Harmless against friendly bacteria or flora*

        Claims such as “Genesis PURE Silver contains SilverSol technology, proven to help boost the immune system to defend against a variety of bacteria, yeasts and viruses.”, “Scientifically tested”, “Safety tested” and “harmless against friendly bacteria or flora”, all seem at best untested and at worst, totally untrue. Without human testing how would we know if Silver actually boosts our immune system or if it harms it, but harms bacteria more? I agree it harms bacteria, but we don’t have clinical evidence as to the impact on our immune system, at least not that I have been shown.

        Here, they are clearly recommending taking it every day. There is no evidence so far as I can tell, and Fred keeps asking for it, that gives you any reason to take it every day (if there is a reason to take it at all). Are there any studies that show people are healthier when they take silver every day, than those that don’t? That isn’t even that hard a study to run. Why every day? Why is this a good dose? Why not another dose or only when you are sick?

        I think the most egregious claim here is ‘Doctor recommended*’. True, doctors have their fair share of nuts and I can find a doctor that would recommend just about anything. I can even find a doctor that would recommend you take Sensa. Still, a preponderance of the medical community would not recommend that you take Silver, or Sensa. What is meant here by Doctor recommended? Which Doctor by the way, ‘Doctor’ Lindsey Duncan? When you look up SilverSol technology you get even more disturbing claims without any references to the proven studies that they talk about. If any of these claims are proven true, why is it so hard to find the proof?

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        July 15, 2013 2:01 am

        I’ll have to look up this proof later about the silver, frankly I don’t know anything more than that Robert was lying about how dangerous it is, and that it kills MRSA in combination with antibiotics, and that in general it is a powerful anti-microbial. I personally wouldn’t take it everyday, until after I saw the dosage that the body can eliminate safely everyday and made sure what I took was below that. I am confident in Dr. Lindsey but I will look this up very thoroughly at some point. I am surprised he recommends taking it every day, frankly.

    • July 13, 2013 8:05 pm

      I thought I turned notifications off… came home to more… LOL… now it is off 🙂

      • Joe S. permalink
        July 19, 2013 6:58 pm

        It is too bad that Mark Ketchum from Genesis Pure has turned off his notifications. I wonder what he would think of Dr. Lindsey Duncan and Cheryl Wheeler Duncan being frauds lying about being married and getting a divorce in December 2009? It is easy to investigate someone if you suspect them of fraud. I just called the clerks’ offices in the areas surrounding where they live and found a divorce record on file in Travis County, TX. I don’t like scammers or frauds and I think that this guy is a con artist and the MLM is fishy. What is that expression? The fish stinks from the head down.

      • Robert permalink
        July 19, 2013 9:08 pm

        Mark wouldn’t care, trust me. The first thing you have to understand about GP is that it is a cult, and the first thing you have to understand about cults is that they demand blind loyalty to the cult leader. Dissent of any kind is not tolerated in cults and GP is no different. Mark (among other GP cult members here) was shown irrefutable proof that “Dr.” Lindsey Duncan was not in fact a doctor by any accepted definition, but it didn’t matter. He continued to insist he was not only a doctor but a damn good one. Mark was shown irrefutable proof many of the claims Duncan makes are bogus, again it didn’t matter. Mark insisted they were true, despite mountains of proof to the contrary.

        GP “members” (I prefer to call them cult followers) are not interested in the truth. They are interested in defending and protecting the cult and the financial gains of those running the cult. GP is the brain child of a proven professional fraudster and it is an organization built upon lies, deception, deceit, and fraud. In terms of their priorities, the truth isn’t even on their list, let alone at the top.

      • Larry Tacker permalink
        July 20, 2013 9:08 am

        I worked for (and closely with) Lindsey Duncan for a few years and know him and the Genesis operation well. I spent a lot of time with him, traveled with him, been in his home on many occasions. He has a lot of good qualities, but I can tell you without equivocation that he is not a completely honest or ethical person. His degrees, for instance, are from bogus institutions, as has been stated here. That’s one of the reasons he goes by “Dr. Lindsey” and not by “Dr. Duncan.” His rationale, which I heard him say more than once, is that the former is safer, because it’s more of a nickname and not a misleading title. As years went by, he became less concerned about that, but it’s definitely something he thought about and calculated.

        Likewise, his claims of celebrity clients has changed a lot over the years. He definitely did see some true stars when he practiced in California, but who and for how long is quite a grey area. Genesis Pure promotionals, like the video on Mark Ketchum’s website, include names that Duncan never treated, and in some cases those celebrities have sent C&D letters to stop using their names. The only “celebrities” Duncan mentions regularly in actual promotional material are designer Marc Jacobs and onetime NFL star Tony Dorsett. Believe me, if any of those big names were actual happy clients of Duncan’s, he’d be trumpeting that wherever he could. The claim, also on Ketchum’s website, that Duncan has been “flown to the White House” to treat former presidents and their families is 100% false. Again, if that were the case, you’d seen the evidence. A man with an ego the size of Duncan’s – and it is enormous – doesn’t let that kind of opportunity go to waste.

        Duncan’s defenders, on this site and elsewhere, regularly trot out the caveat that Duncan (and his products) are healthy supplements and don’t claim to cure any disease or condition. But I have heard him, many times, claim in private that he has cured people of a wide range of illnesses, including heavy-hitters like hepatitis and even cancer. Not “helped” cure, but actually cured. You won’t find that in any public-facing information because it’s illegal to claim it, it’s totally untrue and he’s got nothing t back it up.

        All that being said, I don’t believe the recent thread here alleging that Duncan and his wife Cheryl are divorced. The record cited is for a Robert Linsey Duncan, and that’s not the way “Dr.” Lindsey’s name is spelled. I also don’t recall that his first name was actually Robert. I think the similarities are purely coincidental.

      • Joe S. permalink
        July 20, 2013 2:03 pm

        You are incorrect. The record clearly states Robert Lindsey Duncan and Cheryl Wheeler Duncan. If you look on http://www.corporationwiki.com you will clearly see that Dr. Lindsey and Robert Lindsey Duncan are one and the same. Nothing coincidental here. He appears to be lying to sell more products and sign up more MLM folks. This fits right in with what you said you witnessed of his character. I am glad that my niece is not going to risk her hard earned money with this guy.

      • Larry Tacker permalink
        July 20, 2013 10:26 pm

        You could be right – it wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong about him. The divorce record I found had his named spelled Linsey, but that could have been a clerical error. Cheryl has gone by a few names in her career: Cheryl Wheeler, Cheryl Wheeler-Dixon, Cheryl Duncan, Cheryl Wheeler-Duncan but didn’t remember her middle name being Marie as the divorce record you cite has it. So I checked with a former colleague and confirmed that Marie is correct. So I’m not doubting you any more. I was holding out hope that they hadn’t stooped that low, especially Cheryl, who always seemed more decent than Lindsey, and because they have young kids. Wow. That’s quite an elaborate con they’re pulling. I wonder who got the house? http://www.trulia.com/homes/Texas/Austin/sold/23252406-12295-Trautwein-Rd-Austin-TX-78737

      • Robert permalink
        July 23, 2013 6:20 pm

        The link below will take you to a page with photos of the most recent “No Limits” event. The pictures speak for themselves. Every slide focuses on recruiting new members into the pyramid. especially like the slide that states “ignorance on fire is better than knowledge on ice” – perfectly sums up the GP business model – spreading ignorance is okay so long as you do it passionately and make money off it.
        https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.491612704239423.1073741826.362531207147574&type=1#!/media/set/?set=a.491612704239423.1073741826.362531207147574&type=1

  68. Fred Lunt permalink
    August 1, 2013 12:55 pm

    Ok…we’ve determined that ‘Dr’ Duncan is not a doctor. We now know that there are NO peer reviewed, human clinical studies that demonstrate ANY of his supplements are safe or effective. And finally, we all understand that Genesis Pure shills are completely brainwashed and won’t admit to any of this no matter how much evidence is presented.

    • Myles Ikenberry permalink
      August 1, 2013 5:22 pm

      OK… we’ve determined that you are incapable of critically analyzing scientific literature or having an intelligent discussion about Genesis Pure products. You still don’t understand that you personally linked a refutation of your own BS accusation of a product not being safe. You still don’t undertand that medical researchers studying the effectiveness of silver nanoparticles understand the actions of antibiotics in the human body enough to know that their research is not completely worthless just because someone with zero knowledge (you) says it is. And finally, we all understand that no matter how many peer reviewed journal articles I link regarding (the AMA’s advice on) taking multivitamins, silver nanoparticles improving the effectiveness of antibioitics on MRSA at dosages safe for the human body, or the many beneficial effects of green coffee beans, you will never realize or admit that you are completely ignorant about medical science and nutrition, and completely incapable of giving an intelligent critique of the effectiveness or safety of Genesis Pure products.

      The bottom line about Dr. Lindsey’s education is that he is an exceptional student of nutrition and his knowledge and products are absolutely excellent. He was winning awards for his formulations (from unbiased third-party nutrition groups) and running a successful holistic healing clinic well-before he started GP. His multivitamin receives excellent scores from unbiased third party medical doctors, and if they reviewed his other products their responses would be equally positive. My challenge stands for someone to find an unbiased nutritionist and ask their opinion (maybe you should just show them product ingredient labels since we are in agreement that marketing tactics which appeal to the laymen are not particularly appealing to the well-educated). You can lie and say that Lindsey Duncan bought a fake degree online, but anyone who is familiar with the pharmaceutical industry and our nutrition-deficient, symptom-focused modern medicine will recognize that as BS. The top U.S. university on holistic medicine cannot be labeled fake just because it was non-accredited. I am sure the pharmaceutical companies rejoiced when it was shut down by a law-suit.

      I am glad that Vaughan was honest enough to admit he has no hard scientific/molecular understanding of human nutrition and that he may be wrong about what he says on his blog about nutritional products in general and GP in particular. Certainly his advice is not compatible with the recommendations of the AMA. That realization – which is unambiguous and straightforward – should be the beginning of a much more conservative (and knowledge-based) approach to criticizing nutritional products. I hope Vaughan tries Genesis Pure products at some point and writes a blog article about what he personally experiences. At this point, after all this discussion, I think that would make a lot of sense. And I think he would be honest enough to recognize his mistake after he saw changes in his body, energy, mood, etc.

      I have been studying nutrition literature for more than a decade. Everything I say is based on my dedication to building my own understanding of human nutrition on a system biological/molecular level. Fred, I am about as brain-washed as you are capable of critiquing the experimental methods of cutting-edge medical research. I am going to post a long response to all the BS accusations from you and others as soon as I have a break from my DOCTORAL studies.

      My step-dad just tried cleanse balance build. He loves it, and has zero reason to be dishonest. I told him I don’t care if he wants the products or not, I just wanted him to try it, and he has zero interest in being part of an MLM. He says he feels like he’s young again, sleeping better more energy during the day, and in general is shocked at what a difference he feels. That’s how my wife felt too, that’s why she forced me to hear the presentation however long ago. I felt a significant difference too when I started taking them, and so does every person I have talked to about it. No one in real life who I have seen try them has a negative opinion afterwards. Except super-angry, lying, brother-of-someone-successful guy.

      These products help the body function as it is meant to. Your body can fix a lot of damage on its own if it has the molecular building blocks it needs, and is not overrun with toxins and unbalanced hormones. I have seen people able to stop taking medications after starting these products, with their doctors’ approval of course. I am not saying they cure diseases, but they are excellent support for people wanting to help their bodies function at their best.

      I will give a long discussion of toxins in the human body and the use of herbal supplements to assist the body in excretion later when I have time.

      Multivitamins, as the AMA officially recognizes, can lower the risk of heart disease, cancer, and other common serious diseases. It is recommended that all adults take one. And if you do take one, make it a good one. Cheap dentists, surgeons, and vitamins are all bad ways to save money, in my humble opinion.

      Traditional Chinese Medicine (Go-Yin) is awesome. I don’t understand it, Dr. Lindsey doesn’t either, but his friend who made the formula is an expert in the field, and the product is just awesome. I personally have felt it. GP isn’t spending millions of dollars on research studies and clinical trials for everything they sell, and no one reasonable expects that they should have to. If you think that medical researchers analyzing the effects of pharmaceuticals have no conflicts of interest, you are out of your mind. I linked a quote from the former editor of one of the best medical research journals, I suggest you read it before you attack GP’s less expensive clinical trial.

      People with zero dedication to studying literature and gaining a scientifically rigorous understanding of human nutrition (i.e. the hateful loudmouthed critics on this comment section) are doing their fellow human beings a disservice by attacking a company with genuinely excellent nutritional products. There are plenty of terrible health companies out there with terrible products that deserve your criticism. The problem is that you can’t tell the difference, so here you are.

      • Robert permalink
        August 1, 2013 8:18 pm

        “The bottom line about Dr. Lindsey’s education is that he is an exceptional student of nutrition and his knowledge…..”

        Myles, so in your opinion, it is acceptable that Lindsey Duncan claims to be a doctor when he is not simply because he knows a lot about the area in which he claims to hold a doctoral degree? That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I think we would all agree that Barack Obama knows a lot about politics…would it be acceptable for Obama to claim he holds a doctoral degree in Political Science and call himself “Dr. Barack Obama”?

        “The top U.S. university on holistic medicine cannot be labeled fake just because it was non-accredited……”

        You do realize that there are accredited educational institutions that offer doctoral degrees in natural and holistic medicine, don’t know? Apparently you do not. How could the “top U.S. university on holistic medicine” in the country NOT be accredited if it was indeed the top school in the nation? You don’t make any sense and I think you know it.

        The simple facts are impossible for you to spin:

        #1. FACT: Mr. Lindsey Duncan has never attended a university in his entire life…not in holistic medicine, not in natural medicine, not in any kind of medicine. He has no college degree whatsoever……not an Associate’s Degree, not a Bachelor’s Degree, not a Master’s Degree, and certainly not a Ph.D.

        #2. FACT: Mr. Lindsey Duncan purchased his “degree” online from a recognized online diploma mill – Clayton College.

        #3. FACT: Clayton College is not the top school in the nation for holistic and natural medicine…not even close. It was a diploma mill that sold fake degrees online and rightfully shut down.

        #4. FACT: It is illegal in most states, including Duncan’s home state of Texas, to use a “degree” purchased from Clayon College to call yourself a doctor or promote yourself or a business in any way. So at the very least, regardless of your opinions of what Clayton College is not accredited or the merits of its educational program, you have to admit Lindsey Duncan’s act of calling himself a doctor – in his own home state and may others – is indeed illegal.

      • Fred Lunt permalink
        August 2, 2013 8:53 am

        And Myles, you keep saying you provided links to studies. I’ve never seen a single human study that proves that ingesting silver is beneficial. NOT ONE! If I missed it, let me know.

      • Myles Ikenberry permalink
        August 2, 2013 12:33 pm

        “You do realize that there are accredited educational institutions that offer doctoral degrees in natural and holistic medicine, don’t know? Apparently you do not. ”

        That’s true actually, I didn’t realize that. I actually hadn’t heard of Clayton College of Natural Health until I discovered for Fred that it was the source of Lindsey Duncan’s degrees. I read about it for about 15 minutes the first time, and my understanding of the generally up-hill battles that naturopathic doctors and nutritionists face led to me accept what I read without doing more research. That was a mistake and I was wrong about what I said. I did some more research today and I’ll share with you what I found. I realize it helps your case and that you would never have put together an argument containing links to the actual facts you are trying to prove, so you’re welcome.

        http://www.cnme.org/
        Established in 1978, they are the only r